Ratios of buildings dimensions and size and position of site

For discussion, news, comments, questions and information about Crete & Greece.
grannyM
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:29 pm

Ratios of buildings dimensions and size and position of site

Postby grannyM » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:32 pm

Can anyone advise me as to the square meterage of building one is allowed on a site within the village plan of slightly under 1,600 square metres please? We currently have a house of under 91 sms, and a detatched garage of about 30 sms, but I seem to remember that within the village plan you were allowed considerably more. Does it vary from village to village or is there a consistent standard throughout Greece?

YoMo2
Posts: 1161
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:07 am
Location: Milatos, Lasithi

Re: Ratios of buildings dimensions and size and position of site

Postby YoMo2 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:32 am

In most villages you would expect to be able to build more than you now have. However, there are all sorts of variations in planning regs. Why not consult an engineer, or get an educated Greek friend to look at your topograph and tell you the answer to your question?

Andrew

grannyM
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:29 pm

Re: Ratios of buildings dimensions and size and position of site

Postby grannyM » Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:22 am

Yes, I think we will talk to the Notary. I was hoping there was a standard ratio, + distances between properties and from boundaries, which I thought I dimly remembered, but better get it right!
Cheers!

Kilkis
Posts: 11083
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Ratios of buildings dimensions and size and position of site

Postby Kilkis » Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:34 am

My topography has a box showing the calculation of permitted build area. There are two calculations, one for residential property and one for tourist property. It is based on breaking the plot down into smaller areas and applying a multiplier to each area so a plot double the size does not have double the allowed build area. In my case the residential numbers for a 506 sqm plot wholly inside the village boundary were:

    0 to 100 sqm multiplier = 1.6 allowed build = 160 sqm
    100 to 200 sqm multiplier = 0.80 allowed build = 80 sqm
    200 to 300 sqm multiplier = 0.60 allowed build = 60 sqm
    Above 300 sqm multiplier = 0.40 allowed build = 82 sqm in my case, i.e. 206 x 0.40

    Total allowed build = 160 + 80 + 60 + 82 = 382 sqm

I don't know if the allowed multipliers are universal or vary from area to area or evolve over time. My calculation was for a largish village to the south west of Chania in 2005. Your plot is very large, e.g. enough to build at least 4 decent size houses. I don't know if the 0.40 multiplier applies to everything above 300 sqm or reduces again for larger size plots, e.g. above 1,000 sqm. Obviously this doesn't really answer your question with any great certainty but I think you can be pretty sure that you could build 400 sqm or more.

Remember that there are also rules about minimum distances from boundaries. I think, but I am not certain, that below a 500 sqm plot there is no minimum limit. Above 500 sqm it is certainly 2.5 m minimum distance. I don't know if that increases again, e.g. above 1,000 sqm. There are also limits on how high you can build. Typically, inside a village, I think it is 2 storeys with more allowed in towns and cities.

Warwick

YoMo2
Posts: 1161
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:07 am
Location: Milatos, Lasithi

Re: Ratios of buildings dimensions and size and position of site

Postby YoMo2 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:06 pm

grannyM wrote:Yes, I think we will talk to the Notary. I was hoping there was a standard ratio, + distances between properties and from boundaries, which I thought I dimly remembered, but better get it right!
Cheers!


The notary will know nothing about it. Speak to an engineer/surveyor/architect, and show them the topo.

Andrew

grannyM
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:29 pm

Re: Ratios of buildings dimensions and size and position of site

Postby grannyM » Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:29 pm

Thank you Warwick and Andrew. I see we do have identical ratios on our topography but not sure what happens above 300 but I think it just means that final figure applies. I'd have had no idea what was meant so on the face of it there is plenty of building space, limited only by our existing layouts.
We've made an appointment to see the Notary who has always been a bright light in a sea of temperament solicitors etc. and given the figures I 'd be surprised if he couldn't help, even if strictly speaking he isn't the correct point of reference, as he is such a helpful and delightful man. I'm sure we'll get there anyway!
Most grateful to you, and the Forum. It is rare I don't get a helpful answer,
Best wishes,
Mary

YoMo2
Posts: 1161
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:07 am
Location: Milatos, Lasithi

Re: Ratios of buildings dimensions and size and position of site

Postby YoMo2 » Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:17 am

grannyM, sorry, I was being overly prescriptive in saying the notary will know nothing. If he/she is willing, then you will probably get the information you need. But I always think it's best to use the appropriate professional.

Your top should show the minimum plot size required to build, maximum footprint allowed, maximum total floor area, and maximum height. Also minimum distance of house from boundary line. Alternatively, I think in many cases you can build exactly on the boundary, but no windows would be allowed on that wall.

As an example of variations one might encounter, my topo shows the maximum permitted build, but there is no scale of allowances, just one figure. I guess it depends on exactly where the plot is.

As Warwick mentioned earlier, from the figures you've given, I doubt you will be pushed for expansion space. But all will soon be revealed. Interested to know what you learn.

Andrew

grannyM
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:29 pm

Re: Ratios of buildings dimensions and size and position of site

Postby grannyM » Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:25 am

Dear Andrew,
The only reason we are asking is that we are planning to sell. A little house with big garden and lots of privacy was perfect for us. The estate agent of course looks to the selling factors and land to build ( even if it would have destroyed our idyll) will certainly be one of them, either for Cretans wanting to keep family near, or foreigners who may want to expand, although from what Warwick says different ratios would apply for commercial builds or tourism.
We don't want to go, but with younger family members likely to die in harness, and contemporaries, developing serious illness or worse, we see the clock ticking, the work involved in the garden getting more difficult, and minor( at present) health issues multiplying. So we thought we'd float it and see what happens. If the price is good, we will sell, if not we will hopefully enjoy a few more autumns and springs in out little spiti mas!
Thanks for your input.
Best wishes,
Mary

Kilkis
Posts: 11083
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Ratios of buildings dimensions and size and position of site

Postby Kilkis » Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:59 pm

The figures I gave were from the topography used to get building permission so they only contained information relating to a private dwelling. The original topography, when we bought the plot, contained figures for both private dwelling and tourist property. I can't find that at present but from what I can remember the tourist multipliers were bigger than the private dwelling ones, not smaller, so your 1,600 sqm plot could certainly also be attractive for tourist development depending on its exact location.

I am amazed at properties near me that have recently been renovated for letting through AirBnB etc. For example a tiny house fronting directly onto a village road with just enough outside space to put a small table and 4 chairs giving a fantastic view of the half derelict OTE exchange building opposite. An old café fronting directly onto the main Chania to Omalos road converted into a mini-hotel. Motorbikes, cars, trucks and coaches speeding past 24 hours per day. Neither are my idea of an idyllic holiday location.

Warwick

YoMo2
Posts: 1161
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:07 am
Location: Milatos, Lasithi

Re: Ratios of buildings dimensions and size and position of site

Postby YoMo2 » Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:10 am

Kilkis wrote:.........I am amazed at properties near me that have recently been renovated for letting through AirBnB etc. For example a tiny house fronting directly onto a village road with just enough outside space to put a small table and 4 chairs giving a fantastic view of the half derelict OTE exchange building opposite. An old café fronting directly onto the main Chania to Omalos road converted into a mini-hotel. Motorbikes, cars, trucks and coaches speeding past 24 hours per day. Neither are my idea of an idyllic holiday location.Warwick


I'd love to read their descriptions on AirBnB...........

Andrew

Kilkis
Posts: 11083
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Ratios of buildings dimensions and size and position of site

Postby Kilkis » Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:39 am

The positioning on the map of AirBnB properties is somewhat haphazard so it is difficult to be certain but I think this is the small property opposite the semi-derelict OTE building. As you can see it is nicely done inside but it is very small to say it claims to cater for 5 guests, i.e. 75 sqm and one bedroom. Outside it also looks nice but not exactly a wonderful position to sit in the evening. This property is owned by the same person and is almost next door but it is set back from the road in its own grounds with a high fence and gate shutting it off from the road.

This is the property very close to the Chania - Omalos road. As you can see it is much more up-market with a pool and tennis court. If you look at the picture showing the fountain, the right hand edge of the balcony at the edge of the picture is 10 to 20 m from the main road. If you look at the picture showing the back of the house looking along the pool the twin spotlights just to the right of the house are on the road. On the plus side there is a nice café and a pizza taverna that does excellent pizzas and lots of other good dishes about 50 m from the front gate.

On the other hand this property is located only a few hundred metres from the first two and is a completely different kettle of fish for anybody wanting to travel in a big group, i.e. sleeps 14. It is on a quiet side road with virtually no traffic. It is on a flat plot slightly raised up above the road, i.e. about 2 m, and has fantastic views all round. It's not cheap but if you filled it the cost per person isn't enormous.

Warwick

grannyM
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:29 pm

Re: Ratios of buildings dimensions and size and position of site

Postby grannyM » Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:20 pm

Just to get back to my original query! You were right Andrew as the poor overworked Notary didn't know. He and the local architects and engineers are flat out in the final land registration for the district after several extensions. Whereas the latter folk are paid, for the notary it is just part of his job!
A local architect did confirm that our total allowance was 400 square metres , so more than double what we have used. Interesting that tourist builds have greater scope, but we'll leave others to suss that out.
We have 2 totally at variance selling factors, a big private garden , and room to develop! Hopefully a new buyer might settle for a bit of both.
So we wait and see whether or not the Estate Agent is too positive. Sales are usually slow in this area, but there are more tourists this year and a new airport planned.

Kilkis
Posts: 11083
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Ratios of buildings dimensions and size and position of site

Postby Kilkis » Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:54 pm

grannyM wrote:...We have 2 totally at variance selling factors, a big private garden , and room to develop!...


With a 1,600 sqm plot and a 400 sqm build allowance I wouldn't class them as "totally at variance". You already have 120 sqm constructed so you would only be taking 280 sqm at most out of what is there now. Build on 2 floors and you are only taking an extra 80 sqm out of the existing plot. I think you would still have enough room to swing a cat round.

Warwick

PS I'm surprised it is a 400 sqm limit for such a large plot since mine is almost that for a 510 sqm plot. Perhaps there is an upper limit of 400 sqm on a single plot inside a village like the 200 sqm limit outside the village boundary?

Warwick

grannyM
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:29 pm

Re: Ratios of buildings dimensions and size and position of site

Postby grannyM » Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:05 pm

Yes Warwick,
I too had expected more, but that is what the architect said. Mind I have known him to be wrong!
Really not for us to worry about and if we have departed I suppose people can swing as many or as few cats as they chose, although it would please me if some discerning person liked it just the way it was!
Again, thanks for all the helpful comments!
Mary

YoMo2
Posts: 1161
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:07 am
Location: Milatos, Lasithi

Re: Ratios of buildings dimensions and size and position of site

Postby YoMo2 » Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:38 pm

Kilkis wrote:
grannyM wrote:......I'm surprised it is a 400 sqm limit for such a large plot since mine is almost that for a 510 sqm plot. Perhaps there is an upper limit of 400 sqm on a single plot inside a village like the 200 sqm limit outside the village boundary?


In most, (all?) places there is an upper limit of 400 sqm.

Andrew


Return to “General Discussion & News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: MSN [Bot] and 14 guests