Pension bombshell...

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tomcourtney
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:15 pm

Pension bombshell...

Postby tomcourtney » Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:58 pm

Just come off the phone to the International State Pension Service.
A letter is in the process of being issued.
Unless you are a permanent resident in the UK, from 2023 no annual increases will be paid to State Pensions. They will be frozen.

They said it applies to all outside UK residents, regardless of where they live, EEC included, or how long they have been there.

We’re stunned.

Tom & Jane

Stavros21
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:47 am

Re: Pension bombshell...

Postby Stavros21 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:27 pm

Tom and Jane,

That's bad news.

Was any reason given?

Best wishes,

James

bobscott
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Location: Kokkino Horio

Re: Pension bombshell...

Postby bobscott » Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:35 pm

According to the BritishinEurope website (https://britishineurope.org/2020/01/25/wa-health-pensions-social-security/ in their 3rd paper on the Withdrawal Agreement, it specifically states that if you are already in receipt of a State Retirement Pension then it will continue to be paid and uprated as long as you continue to be legally resident in the country where you are living.

I would if I were you go back to the Pensions people and point this out to them and see what they say.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

bobscott
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Location: Kokkino Horio

Re: Pension bombshell...

Postby bobscott » Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:08 pm

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47318292

Date of the article: 28 January 2020

If you are entitled to a UK state pension, you can claim it wherever you live in the world.

If you live in the UK, your state pension is uprated every year in line with the triple lock, which means it rises by whichever is highest of average earnings, inflation or 2.5%.

That is also the case if you live in the 27 other EU countries as well as Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland.

Under the terms of the withdrawal agreement, that will continue for anyone eligible for a UK state pension who is living in one of those countries before the end of 2020.

But for people who move to one of those countries from 2021, it will depend on the outcome of negotiations on the UK's future relationship with the EU.

The UK will only continue to uprate pensions if it has an agreement either with the whole of the EU or with the individual countries so that their state pensioners living in the UK also receive annual upratings.

The Department for Work and Pensions told Reality Check: "Insisting on reciprocal arrangements has been government policy for over 70 years and will continue to be so."

My highlighting above. It is not entirely clear in this rendition by the BBC whether the second lot of highlighted text above is a general caveat, or only related to the sentence above it. BritsinEurope obviously believe it doesn't apply to those who are permanent residents prior to 1 January 2021.

Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

Kilkis
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Location: Near Chania

Re: Pension bombshell...

Postby Kilkis » Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:40 pm

I think it is pretty safe to assume that there are two categories:

    1 Those living legally in an EU country before the end of 2020 and who continue to do so. They will receive their UK State Pension uprated as now in accordance with the Withdrawal Agreement.
    2 Those who relocate to an EU country after 31 December 2020. They will not be covered by the terms of the Withdrawal Agreement and so their UK State Pension will only be uprated if the UK agrees a reciprocal pension agreement with the whole EU as part of the future relationship negotiations OR, failing an EU wide agreement, the UK reaches a reciprocal pension agreement with the particular country where they live.

The UK government only uprates pensions of people living in countries that have a reciprocal pension agreement with the UK. The Withdrawal Agreement IS a reciprocal agreement that includes pensions but which only applies to a certain group of people so only that group benefit from it. If the government does not uprate pensions for people covered by the Withdrawal Agreement then they are in breach of that Agreement. Also, if the letter is as you have described, Tom, and applies to every UK State Pensioner wherever they live then it is also in breach of a dozen or more reciprocal agreements with other countries.

I would contact the Embassy in Athens, Tom.

Warwick

PS Investigating further, there was a UK Gov article in 2019 describing what would happen in the event of no Withdrawal Agreement that did talk about uprating ending in March 2023. That article is still on the Internet but has a statement:

    This news article was withdrawn on 29 January 2020

There is a new article. That article makes it clear uprating applies as long as you continue to live in the EU country you are legally resident in by the end of 2020.

tomcourtney
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:15 pm

Re: Pension bombshell...

Postby tomcourtney » Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:49 pm

I have already put that point to them. A supervisor rang me back and confirmed that on instructions from the government letters are to be issued, and they are currently in the process of doing so, to all currently in receipt of pensions abroad.
Increases in state pensions will only be applied to UK residents from 2022. !!!! They were very clear on this and no exceptions would apply.

I told them of the BBC website advice that we had to be resident in Greece before 1 jan 2021 or pensions will be frozen.
The International State Pension Service have asked me to send them the link to that advice as they were unaware of it. I am in the process of doing so.

We are devastated as at 2.5% inflation and 2.5% increases to pensions using April 2020- £175 state pension,
over 5 years with no increases and inflation instead of £197 pre week your pension after inflation will be worth £154 per week

At 3.5% inflation and increases the difference will be £61 per week

Double this for a couple obviously so £80 to £120 a week loss if not more...

The 2020 increase has been set at 3.9% so I am using ‘conservative’ figures)

tomcourtney
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:15 pm

Re: Pension bombshell...

Postby tomcourtney » Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:51 pm

Email just sent to
tvp.internationalqueries@dwp.gov.. Uk



I have been told today by 2 people from your office that a letter is in the process of being issued to the effect that annual state pension increases will not be applied after 2022/2023 to all non UK residents.

I was asked to supply links to BBC web pages which contradict this.

Please call me ASAP as this news if correct will be a bombshell to our plans to retire in Greece.

Tom Courtney
07743 899475




Living in Greece - GOV.UK


https://www.gov.uk/guidance/living-in-greece
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/living-in-greece#pensions

And


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47318292

Kilkis
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Location: Near Chania

Re: Pension bombshell...

Postby Kilkis » Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:08 pm

You could send them this link as a PS:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/benefits-an ... ember-2020

Warwick

tomcourtney
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:15 pm

Re: Pension bombshell...

Postby tomcourtney » Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:16 pm

Thx W, I have sent that link as you suggested and asked for an urgent reply.

Tom

tomcourtney
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Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:15 pm

Re: Pension bombshell...

Postby tomcourtney » Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:11 pm

Could the DWP be in such disarray as to not be aware of the advice change on the .gov.uk website on 1st Feb 2020? And are acting on outdated guidelines? Surely they couldn’t be in that bad a mess as to “in the process of sending a letter” which is incorrect. Or has a huge U turn taken place....

The person I spoke to and the supervisor who rang me back said the were unable to find that advice online and “could I send them the links?”

I’ve sent them.

Tom

Kilkis
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Location: Near Chania

Re: Pension bombshell...

Postby Kilkis » Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:47 pm

I suppose it is possible that Amanda Rudd told DWP staff to prepare such a letter back in August 2019 when it was far from certain that there would be a Withdrawal Agreement and Theresa Coffey, who took over from her in September 2019, has never countermanded the instruction, perhaps because she was not aware of it. I get the impression that most government departments are in chaos and not fit for purpose at the moment. If you don't get a satisfactory answer from the staff you have been in contact with you could try emailing her.

Warwick

tomcourtney
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:15 pm

Re: Pension bombshell...

Postby tomcourtney » Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:06 pm

I’ve copied the links I had and those you gave to the DWP and if no reply I will call them tomorrow afternoon.
Regardless of the outcome our resolve to get out of this, increasingly by the day, xenophobic society is strengthened.
We’re moving to Crete this year. !
Thx for the car advice. I have decided to use Nomad for our 10 Cubic Metres or so and drive over in our 2004 E320 Merc estate.
Maybe I could sell it cheaply to someone coming back to the UK or sell it for spares...

Tom

BST
Posts: 512
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:29 pm

Re: Pension bombshell...

Postby BST » Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:28 pm

Kilkis wrote:I think it is pretty safe to assume that there are two categories:

    1 Those living legally in an EU country before the end of 2020 and who continue to do so. They will receive their UK State Pension uprated as now in accordance with the Withdrawal Agreement.
    2 Those who relocate to an EU country after 31 December 2020. They will not be covered by the terms of the Withdrawal Agreement and so their UK State Pension will only be uprated if the UK agrees a reciprocal pension agreement with the whole EU as part of the future relationship negotiations OR, failing an EU wide agreement, the UK reaches a reciprocal pension agreement with the particular country where they live.

The UK government only uprates pensions of people living in countries that have a reciprocal pension agreement with the UK. The Withdrawal Agreement IS a reciprocal agreement that includes pensions but which only applies to a certain group of people so only that group benefit from it. If the government does not uprate pensions for people covered by the Withdrawal Agreement then they are in breach of that Agreement. Also, if the letter is as you have described, Tom, and applies to every UK State Pensioner wherever they live then it is also in breach of a dozen or more reciprocal agreements with other countries.

I would contact the Embassy in Athens, Tom.

Warwick

PS Investigating further, there was a UK Gov article in 2019 describing what would happen in the event of no Withdrawal Agreement that did talk about uprating ending in March 2023. That article is still on the Internet but has a statement:

    This news article was withdrawn on 29 January 2020

There is a new article. That article makes it clear uprating applies as long as you continue to live in the EU country you are legally resident in by the end of 2020.


Apart from everything else, there is a third category. Those who are legally resident but won't reach state pension age until after the transition period!

DWP were insistent they had sent letters out to every woman affected about the pension increase from 60 to 66 decades ago! I never received one and neither did any other WASPI woman I've spoken to....and I know several!
Does the DWP know what it's doing???

bobscott
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Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:36 pm
Location: Kokkino Horio

Re: Pension bombshell...

Postby bobscott » Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:52 pm

BST wrote:Does the DWP know what it's doing???


Probably not ! Who can blame them? Boris, Dominic, etc. Who the hell knows what's going on anyway? Answers on the back of a postage stamp please.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

Yin&Yang
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Location: Megala Horafia/Aptera

Re: Pension bombshell...

Postby Yin&Yang » Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:27 pm

I’m a 60 year old woman and I never received a letter about increasing the age to 66 before I can receive a pension. Until just now I didn’t know the Government had (allegedly) sent any!
Someday is now : )


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