CoronaVirus now confirmed on Crete

For discussion, news, comments, questions and information about Crete & Greece.
mouche
Posts: 730
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:43 pm

Re: CoronaVirus now confirmed on Crete

Postby mouche » Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:53 pm

Jean wrote:
A far cry from the scenes in other, ostensibly more prepared places. ...., after a decade of EU imposed austerity, would be completely unable to deal with a medical emergency.


For crying out loud, the Greek governments did this to themselves, don't blame it all on others!

Kilkis
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Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: CoronaVirus now confirmed on Crete

Postby Kilkis » Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:11 pm

The Greek government did indeed create the debt problem themselves. The Greek government did not design the austerity package that was attached to the bailout, however. The Troika did that. They initially predicted that the measures they imposed would cause a small downturn in the Greek economy. They were wrong. They then recalculated and decided it would cause a slightly bigger downturn. They were wrong again. Their measures totally trashed the Greek economy. The IMF has admitted it got it completely wrong. The rest of the Troika have not. Perhaps that's because they didn't get it wrong, they achieved what they wanted to achieve? Completely crush Greece as a lesson aux autres or til de andre? In the current crisis Greece is getting more practical help from China than from the EU although the EU will probably provide support financially as it is doing for all EU Member States, as long as they can convince Germany.

Warwick

Kamisiana
Posts: 348
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:06 pm

Re: CoronaVirus now confirmed on Crete

Postby Kamisiana » Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:39 pm

Kilkis wrote:The Greek government did indeed create the debt problem themselves. The Greek government did not design the austerity package that was attached to the bailout, however. The Troika did that. They initially predicted that the measures they imposed would cause a small downturn in the Greek economy. They were wrong. They then recalculated and decided it would cause a slightly bigger downturn. They were wrong again. Their measures totally trashed the Greek economy. The IMF has admitted it got it completely wrong. The rest of the Troika have not. Perhaps that's because they didn't get it wrong, they achieved what they wanted to achieve? Completely crush Greece as a lesson aux autres or til de andre? In the current crisis Greece is getting more practical help from China than from the EU although the EU will probably provide support financially as it is doing for all EU Member States, as long as they can convince Germany.

Warwick


Ah Brexit :D

Kilkis
Posts: 11529
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: CoronaVirus now confirmed on Crete

Postby Kilkis » Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:23 pm

On the Greek interactive map there is a statement relating to the total number of cases:

    * Συνυπολογίζονται και τα 227 μη γεωγραφικώς προσδιορισμένα κρούσματα

Google translates this as:

    All 227 non-geographically identified cases are included

Does anybody have any idea what a "non-geographically identified case" means? As far as I can tell they are only showing proven cases through testing. If you test somebody surely you know where they are? Just curious.

Warwick

PS Still only showing 1 case in Chania and none in Rethymnon. No increase in Heraklion or Lasithi. Overall the number of cases in Greece is still growing but the curve is starting to look more linear than exponential so perhaps social distancing is helping. Despite the low confirmed numbers on Crete don't be complacent.

BST
Posts: 512
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:29 pm

Re: CoronaVirus now confirmed on Crete

Postby BST » Sat Mar 28, 2020 4:46 pm

1 more in Herakleion today. 23 year old self quarantining at home, from Xanthi.

BST
Posts: 512
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:29 pm

Re: CoronaVirus now confirmed on Crete

Postby BST » Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:46 pm

And another! Priest in Rethymno. Preached/from Sfakia Lapis.

Marooned
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:03 am

Re: CoronaVirus now confirmed on Crete

Postby Marooned » Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:57 pm

So I stocked up for about a month, by heading down to one of the bulk stores in Chania that I'm familiar with (The Mart). The police were understanding - taking one big trip is safer than taking a lot of shorter ones. I can probably park my car for some time now, and just walk to get produce. I couldn't stock up on the meats that I wanted, because other people beat me to it. While toilet paper is well stocked, the chicken aisle was empty. Now I have to do some research about how people buy meat, The Mart was saving me a lot of money. Why is it twice as expensive everywhere else?

Regarding Chania, I'm changing my opinion now that I've been there. Social distancing has improved since the strict lockdown, but not as much as I had thought. Lets say 50% more compliance. I drove by the park on the west side, by the waterfront, just to count the vain joggers (ie: people who must jog at the park where the other joggers are, instead of just jogging...you know...anywhere else. There was about 20-30, doing laps. Can heavy breathing aerosolize a virus? Oh, who cares. We'll see if police start issuing more fines, but I think they are lenient at the moment. They were certainly nice to me.

I don't think I'll go back until after the restriction is lifted, but I had to look, for anthropological purposes. I figured if I was issued I fine I would request that it goes towards the purchase of a new ventilator.

It will be nice to take a break from going anywhere. I think that I'm getting used to this restricted lifestyle, and hope that everyone is finding a way to make the best of it. If I keep looking at the news though, I will go crazy.

ros21m
Posts: 103
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:32 pm
Location: Kerasia.

Re: CoronaVirus now confirmed on Crete

Postby ros21m » Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:00 am

You stocked up for a month??? Disgusting, that's what is called HOARDING! You are lucky you are here in Greece & not some other countries. We don't currently have too many shortages, here in Crete, because people are shopping sensibly! Ok, so maybe we are putting a few extra items in, I might buy 2 packets of fakes instead of 1, maybe 3 tins of tomatoes, instead of 2. You have shown your total ignorance, of the way of life in your adopted country, SHAME ON YOU!!!

Guy M
Posts: 467
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:20 pm
Location: Kalamitsi Alexandrou

Re: CoronaVirus now confirmed on Crete

Postby Guy M » Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:12 am

From the perspective of the U.K., it looks like Greece has handled this better than many. U.K. has over 1,000 deaths with the prospect of many more - the country wasn’t very good at self isolation and the government was too weak to enforce a strict lockdown early on, despite this being a key message from other countries’ experience.

I hope everyone stays safe there.

Marooned
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:03 am

Re: CoronaVirus now confirmed on Crete

Postby Marooned » Sun Mar 29, 2020 2:10 am

Relax ros21, I usually buy enough for 3 weeks, this shopping trip I bought enough for 4. And I didn't buy extra toilet paper either. Have you been to The Mart before? It is a bulk store. You can buy half a cow if you want. Unfortunately my freezer isn't large enough for that, so I just got a shoulder and some other cheap cuts. No one seems to buy the beef, because it's only available in large portions, you need to cut it up yourself.

Still, I was surprised to see the chicken aisle empty. The rest of the store was fully stocked, and the parking lot was more or less empty. I think The Mart is aimed towards restaurant supply, so if anything, they are well under capacity while many restaurants are closed.

mouche
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Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:43 pm

Re: CoronaVirus now confirmed on Crete

Postby mouche » Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:55 am

Guy M wrote:From the perspective of the U.K., it looks like Greece has handled this better than many.


https://sciencenorway.no/crisis-epidemi ... es/1661751

Kamisiana
Posts: 348
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:06 pm

Re: CoronaVirus now confirmed on Crete

Postby Kamisiana » Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:44 am


Kilkis
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Location: Near Chania

Re: CoronaVirus now confirmed on Crete

Postby Kilkis » Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:35 am

Marooned wrote:So I stocked up for about a month...

ros21m wrote:You stocked up for a month??? Disgusting, that's what is called HOARDING!...

Again the dichotomy of how best to obey the rules? The rule, "Shop as infrequently as possible" automatically means, "Buy enough to last a long time" which breaks the rule, "Don't buy more than you need because it could deprive other people". Like Marooned I also normally shop about every three weeks so I have been buying three weeks worth of groceries for the last 23 years. Buying four weeks worth is hardly hoarding. Normally I would top up with perishable items every few days from the supermarket in the village. (For those who remember the TV series "The League of Gentlemen" its a local shop for local people. I never buy the special from the butchers though.)

You also need to consider the infection rate. At the moment the infection rate is relatively low, even if it is 10 or 100 times the confirmed rate. Also the fact that it is relatively stable for long periods suggests there isn't a vast pool of undetected cases circulating in the community. That infection rate will almost certainly increase, hopefully not too quickly. From a risk point of view it is better to stock up a bit more frequently now, say once per week, so that you don't deplete your reserves and you can then shop less often, say once per month or less if possible, when the infection peaks. I last did a big shop at Lidl and AB on 9 March and at the village supermarket on 17 March and 23 March. I will need to go to the village supermarket again about 1 April. I am watching the infection rate and deciding when to do another Lidl+AB shop, possibly around 9 April or a bit earlier if the infection rate starts to increase sooner.

I think Greece rates better than the UK and worse than some other countries in the measures it has taken. It has certainly responded quickly to implement strong social distancing and make it pretty effective. Only authoritarian regimes like China can make it totally effective. It also has the reverse 112 system operating which allows nationwide and local emergency warnings to be broadcast, which the UK trialled but, despite the success of the trial, never implemented. On the downside, I think Greece has probably been as bad as the UK in its testing regime. Countries like South Korea and Norway, as Mouche's link demonstrates, have done much better and it has had a marked result. Governments around the world claim that "They are following the best scientific advice" but very few seem to be following the scientific advice of the WHO. The ones that are following WHO advice seem to be having the best outcomes which suggests that WHO advice is the best advice. Given that they have taken the lead in fighting epidemics and pandemics around the world for decades it is hardly surprising. I also worry about the resilience of the Greek public healthcare system if the rate of infection does rise quickly despite the measures taken.

The article Mouche linked is about mortality rates, Kamisiana, not mortality numbers so population size is not a direct factor. The article quotes Case Fatality Rates, CFR, which is the ratio of the number of people who died to the number who have been confirmed to have caught the virus. Population size should not affect that. It is true that population density does affect the spread of the disease, so you would expect a bigger proportion of the population to become infected in a country with a high population density than with a low population density. Again that does not affect the CFR but it would alter the percentage of the total population that died.

Warwick

PS I was just watching last night's Press Preview on Sky News. One of the two commentators started talking about assessing the economic cost and the possibility that it may be necessary to accept a higher death rate in order to get the economy moving again. Before she got too far the programme cut to an advert without any warning and then cut back to the programme when she was talking about something else. A technical glitch or a case of "Don't frighten the horses"?

PPS It has also just been revealed that the NHS did an exercise a few years ago to test how it would cope with a pandemic. The results were that it wouldn't. The government buried the report and did nothing. If the information is correct then it is a terrible indictment of the UK government at that time.

bobscott
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Location: Kokkino Horio

Re: CoronaVirus now confirmed on Crete

Postby bobscott » Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:20 pm

Kilkis wrote:
PPS It has also just been revealed that the NHS did an exercise a few years ago to test how it would cope with a pandemic. The results were that it wouldn't. The government buried the report and did nothing. If the information is correct then it is a terrible indictment of the UK government at that time.


Exercise Cygnus in October 2016?

Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

Kilkis
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Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: CoronaVirus now confirmed on Crete

Postby Kilkis » Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:33 pm

Yes, I believe that is the name of the exercise. When I heard it on a news report it sounded like "Exercise Sickness" but I obviously misheard.

Warwick


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