CoronaVirus now confirmed on Crete

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bobscott
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Re: CoronaVirus now confirmed on Crete

Postby bobscott » Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:04 pm

Kilkis wrote:Well if you're going to fine anyone it may as well be UK pensioners, as they are probably the only ones still getting an income, and if you are going to go UK pensioner hunting Apokoronas is as good a place as any. I've not been out for over a week so I am not sure what is happening round this area regarding enforcement. The chap who owns the plot of land opposite me and lives in Chania comes out to work on it everyday. I'm not sure what category that comes under?

Warwick


The only 'influx' we have noticed around here is the fairly small number of Greek 'family' homes in the village where the occupants are normally living in Athens, and who have decamped to here possibly for the duration or at least until 'it' is all over. They would have no checks, being Nationals who are 'merely' returning home. Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

Guy M
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Re: CoronaVirus now confirmed on Crete

Postby Guy M » Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:09 pm

The charts in the attached link from the FT show something remarkable: the job Greece is doing in ‘flattening the curve’ - the only European country, other than Norway, that is following a trajectory similar to South Korea. While the U.K. follows Italy and France, and Spain runs out of control, what is happening in Greece, presumably through the quicker lockdown and the controls on allowing people to leave their houses, appears to be a positive outlier.

https://www.ft.com/content/a26fbf7e-48f ... 5839e06441

Jean
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Re: CoronaVirus now confirmed on Crete

Postby Jean » Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:53 pm

They would have no checks, being Nationals who are 'merely' returning home. Bob.

Not as simple since the lockdown. To get on a flight to Chania (and I assume the same would apply to ferries) you need to show that you are resident of Crete. Being a Greek national is not enough. You need to be resident. Apparently these checks are not done if you fly from Chania to Athens.

BST
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Re: CoronaVirus now confirmed on Crete

Postby BST » Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:01 pm

Sadly it appears Chania has its first case. 66 year old man with mild symptoms in house quarantine.

Kilkis
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Re: CoronaVirus now confirmed on Crete

Postby Kilkis » Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:35 pm

An interesting development. At 17:58 I received a text message. It was not one of the reverse 112 broadcast alerts. It was an ordinary text message from a Greek mobile number: +30 6970 096024 but obviously official. The message reads:

    URGENT PUBLIC HEALTH ALERT: DUE TO COVID-19 ALL TRAVELERS [sic] ARRIVING IN GREECE MUST SELF-ISOLATE FOR 14 DAYS. DO NOT PUT YOURSELF AND OTHERS AT RISK.

The interesting part is that it was sent to my UK mobile SIM and is only in English. It looks like the government may be getting Greek mobile operators to detect foreign SIMs that are connected to their network and send them an alert. I don't know if this relates to the earlier comments about tourists.

The restriction that only Greeks with permanent residency on an island could move to that island only came into effect on Saturday March 21 so it is possible that the Athenians Bob has seen arrived before that restriction was imposed, Jean. I think there are also some who spend more time in Athens than on Crete but they are registered as tax resident here and submit their tax return here so they would also be allowed to come.

There is a research group at Oxford University currently doing a comparative study of the way different countries reacted and how that affected the outcome, Guy. I saw a person involved with the study being interviewed this afternoon and he said it was too early to draw very definite conclusions but the key factor was test, trace and isolate. Social distancing was useful mainly to slow the rate of spread a) so that it was easier to carry out test, trace and isolate, because the numbers are smaller, and b) so that the peak effect on the healthcare system is smaller. The speed and rigidity with which social distancing was implemented were critical factors in how successful it was. Other than that they needed more time to separate the cause and effect aspects of the many differences between countries, e.g. social norms, demographics, healthcare systems and many more. When asked who he would point to as responding the best the only one he highlighted was South Korea.

Warwick

PS Of all the curves shown in the FT article only two have gone flat, i.e. no significant increase in number of cases. They are China, i.e. total lockdown, and South Korea, i.e. the most effective implementation of test, trace and isolate with very little social distancing among the general population.

Keltz
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Re: CoronaVirus now confirmed on Crete

Postby Keltz » Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:46 pm

Does anyone know the latest figures for those sadly to have died in the U.K.? I checked the BBC UK website for NI that says a total 28 have died, for Scotland where a total of 60 have died and for Wales a total 69 died but under England the largest country in the U.K. for goodness sake, there is nothing about the rate of death. Is there a problem with collecting this data? It is otherwise difficult to keep track of how things are going back home.

Tim
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Re: CoronaVirus now confirmed on Crete

Postby Tim » Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:51 pm

The total for UK given out a few minutes ago on Radio 4 PM programme was 1798.

Tim

Marooned
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Re: CoronaVirus now confirmed on Crete

Postby Marooned » Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:13 pm

I also received the text messages, on March 18th, and again on March 25. I got them twice, each time, from the aforementioned phone number, and then from "wind". Seems like a good idea. Hopefully this system is sending the texts to all foreign sims, as they enter the country, not just once in a while.

The network is also renamed, right now it's "COSMOTE #ApoToSpiti", or "WIND GR #menoumespiti". Cute, I didn't know they could do that
--

When I talked to the police, I was surprised that they didn't ask when I had arrived in Crete, just "where are you from?"

chrissyg
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Re: CoronaVirus now confirmed on Crete

Postby chrissyg » Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:39 pm

1798 deaths in UK Tim but in the briefing the health guy said we are not out of the woods but that there are definite 'green Shoots'. We look like we are beginning to plateau.

bobscott
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Re: CoronaVirus now confirmed on Crete

Postby bobscott » Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:57 pm

Jean wrote:
They would have no checks, being Nationals who are 'merely' returning home. Bob.

Not as simple since the lockdown. To get on a flight to Chania (and I assume the same would apply to ferries) you need to show that you are resident of Crete. Being a Greek national is not enough. You need to be resident. Apparently these checks are not done if you fly from Chania to Athens.


True. Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

Keltz
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Re: CoronaVirus now confirmed on Crete

Postby Keltz » Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:07 pm

chrissyg wrote:1798 deaths in UK Tim but in the briefing the health guy said we are not out of the woods but that there are definite 'green Shoots'. We look like we are beginning to plateau.


Thanks. As each country in the UK has its own seperate NHS making seperate briefings it would have been helpful to see how each are coping. That make England at 1,641 deaths and having 85% of UK population that is quite high at 91% of UK deaths.

Carolina
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Re: CoronaVirus now confirmed on Crete

Postby Carolina » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:04 pm

There are a couple of strings to the Greek non residents and Brits story re quarantine.

Greece became alarmed at two things :-

1) The ‘ herd immunity’ tactic (of a few short weeks ago) of the UK government was seen as a red flag and the potential for anyone travelling from the UK to Greece to be infected or a carrier. Thousands of Greek students were returning from the UK and ordered to quarantine at home for 14 days, as were British residents of Greece who were also returning to their homes in Greece. (Effective 16th March)

2) Greeks travelling to their island homes/families on islands to escape the mainland after the schools were closed, then bars and tavernas. The worry of Greeks travelling ‘escaping’ to their islands and the chance of taking the virus with them, infecting and spreading the virus in particular to small islands who had (have) no recorded cases. If the virus should spread on these small islands they have no way of coping with it & few health services. Hence the ban on non residents travelling to the islands. (Effective 21 March)


The 16th March was the date the Greek govt announced that all Greeks & non Greeks arriving into the country, particularly from the UK, would need to self quarantine for 14 days.

So, the Greeks and their families listen to the TV news, read the Greek news and know these facts.. particularly those who had student children or other Greek family or friends returning to Greece from the UK. There has been an awful lot on the Greek news about the worry around the UK govts handling of the virus.

How many of you reading this are aware of the above? I expect some of you are, or some version of it, but many including some who have returned from the UK since the 16th March would not be aware of the above I would guess. (It is also listed on this forum re the quarantine dates and has been since day 1, on the disruptions/strike thread)

I read the Apokoronas News article, which is in Greek, the other day. It was basically the Mayor pointing out the worry for Covid – 19 in the Apokoronas area because Brits returning to their homes in the area (the largest concentration of Brits living in any area of Greece) after their winter breaks in the UK are not – or were not - aware of the above and have not been in quarantine. I must admit that I share the Mayor’s fears – have seen so many posts on FB groups of Brits either ‘ innocently’ or purposely flaunting the rules after recently returning from the UK, where as we can all see (and could see coming) there is now a large outbreak in the UK.

The Greek govt texts to UK mobiles in GR are a great idea. Well done Greece. Again.

BST
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Re: CoronaVirus now confirmed on Crete

Postby BST » Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:18 pm

I appreciate your comments above Carolina and it is clear the Greeks would be worried by what is going on in the UK and anyone arriving back in Greece from the UK as we all are. However, I get worried about us all getting tarred with the same brush! I am pretty much glued to FB at the mo and various FB sites but I haven't come across any evidence of anyone flaunting the rules innocently or otherwise. Although I have read some rather daft/ignorant questions in relation to the quarantine rules so I'm puzzled?? I am also wondering where the newly returned Brits are in Apokoronas. There just appear to be residents as opposed to seasonal visitors here.

Kilkis
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Re: CoronaVirus now confirmed on Crete

Postby Kilkis » Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:44 pm

Carolina wrote:...Thousands of Greek students were returning from the UK and ordered to quarantine at home for 14 days, as were British residents of Greece who were also returning to their homes in Greece. (Effective 16th March)...


I tend to follow English language reports but in Greek media wherever possible as well as UK media. I find many Greek language reports are often written in a very strange way so that when I translate it I am never quite sure if I have fully understood it. I am sure that means I am less well informed than someone who gets their information primarily from Greek media outlets.

I was aware that non-EU nationals were banned from entering Greece after 6 am on 18 March but that report said that "Quarantine may be ordered for all others, especially British citizens." I wasn't aware of any ban or quarantine arrangement for EU, including UK, citizens as early as 16 March. I would have thought that if such a forced quarantine was in effect already on 16 March the 18 March report should not be describing it as "may be ordered"? Since I live here permanently and have been following all information sources as closely as possible, if I didn't know about it I would be astounded if UK ex-pats who do not live here all year round would have a clue.

Don't get me wrong. I think the Greek government has every right to be concerned about the situation in the UK. I think if I was the Greek PM I would have ordered enforced 14 day quarantine in a proper quarantine facility for anybody entering the country rather than issuing instructions to stay at home for 14 days. The ventilation systems on aircraft could not have been designed better to spread any airborne disease if the designers had deliberately tried. China is doing that to everybody entering China now as all new cases there are now attributed to people coming into the country not to the disease circulating locally. A Sky News team who flew in a few days ago were met at the airport by people in full protective gear, taken to special hotel rooms for 14 days and are not allowed to leave the room at all. Food is brought to them and left outside the door.

Golden rule. If you are concerned about passengers bringing more of the disease into Greece there is a simple solution - stop all passenger flights to and from everywhere in the world. Essential freight only. Repatriation flights, for your own citizens only, should face full mandatory quarantine.

Warwick

Carolina
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Re: CoronaVirus now confirmed on Crete

Postby Carolina » Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:35 am

BST wrote:I appreciate your comments above Carolina and it is clear the Greeks would be worried by what is going on in the UK and anyone arriving back in Greece from the UK as we all are. However, I get worried about us all getting tarred with the same brush! I am pretty much glued to FB at the mo and various FB sites but I haven't come across any evidence of anyone flaunting the rules innocently or otherwise. Although I have read some rather daft/ignorant questions in relation to the quarantine rules so I'm puzzled?? I am also wondering where the newly returned Brits are in Apokoronas. There just appear to be residents as opposed to seasonal visitors here.


Hi BST, try 'expats in greece' and 'expats in chania' - there was a run-in in particular with one Brit guy who had gone off to Cyprus from Chania for a long weekend, complaining everything was closed in Paphos. Then said he was staying with his mate so it didn't matter. He was told he should quarantine himself when he got back as Greece had just brought in that law while he was away - he laughingly replied .. literally hahaha .. that didn't include him he's a Crete resident so wouldn't have to self quarantine. Everyone corrected him, he wouldn't have it, eventually he backed off 'in public'. (There were 13 confirmed cases in Paphos at that time).

Hey he may be a member of this forum and reading this .. well I hope you are still in self quarantine if you are.

Some others on the Brit FB sites too e.g. just popping into supermarket on their way home to quarantine etc.

It's not just the Brits, it's the Greek travellers too, but the Greeks are more likely to be ostracised by their neighbours.

I don't know where you live in Apokoronas, maybe you know 20, 50, 100 Brits in your village / area but look at the numbers quoted, there are 3500 + Brits in Apokoronas, many are full time residents, others are part time residents and spend time in both UK & Greece. There are people travelling back and forth all the time.


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