Elec Bill & Tax Return property check

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Carolina
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Elec Bill & Tax Return property check

Postby Carolina » Fri Mar 13, 2020 1:09 pm

Check the square meterage of your property on your tax form (E9) and your electricty bill and ensure that they match.
If they don't you should contact your accountant for advise.

https://osiris-investment.com/property- ... x2kRWLjGHw

Quote:
There is a municipality tax that is called T.A.P.
that is going to be collected also through the electricity bill. (Until now
it was paid only when you have sold your property). This tax is not the same
for all the municipalities. (Approximate is 20-30 euro per year for a home
of 100 sq.m.).

The municipalities have found out that many properties have been reported
with the wrong square meter. So the municipalities require the actual size of
your property.

The municipalities have recently opened an online platform that we have to
update the sq. m. of your property according to the already declared sq.m. of
the property declarations (E9 form) in the tax office.


The above procedure is very important to be complete before the 31/03/2020. - N.b. THIS HAS BEEN EXTENDED TO END OF JUNE
In this case, the TAP will be charged from 01/01/2020.

Otherwise, the municipalities will ask the TAP tax five years back!

GlennB
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Re: Elec Bill & Tax Return property check

Postby GlennB » Fri Mar 13, 2020 1:34 pm

The online option is on the front page of taxisnet, but unfortunately returns a 404 'page not found' error (for me, anyway)

Kilkis
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Re: Elec Bill & Tax Return property check

Postby Kilkis » Fri Mar 13, 2020 1:49 pm

I am a bit puzzled by the description (my highlight in red):

    "...that is going to be collected also through the electricity bill. (Until now
    it was paid only when you have sold your property
    )

ΤΑΠ has been a line item on my electricity bill since mid 2008 so I am not sure about the terms "going to be" and "only when you sold your property". Based on the latest bill it is about €14 per year for my property. I am also in a position where the property has been legalised and the area figure on my ENFIA statement, which I presume is the same as on the E9, is a bit bigger, i.e. 112.6 sqm compared to 103 sqm on the electricity bill. That means it will increase to just over €15 per year when the new figure is entered into the municipality system.

There are two other municipality taxes, ΔΤ and ΔΦ, which are also based on the area of the property so I presume they will increase as well. If so my total municipality bill, i.e. ΔΤ + ΔΦ + ΤΑΠ, should rise from about €140 per year to a bit under €154. The notice says that provided the new area figures are entered by the deadline the extra amount of ΤΑΠ will only be collected from 01/01/2020 but if it is after the deadline they will go back 5 years. Does that also apply to ΔΤ and ΔΦ?

I don't really mind if they collect it going back 5 years. In fact I wouldn't object if they collected the extra going back to when the house was built. I had no idea that the builder had under-declared the area until I had the property legalised. The legalisation process automatically updated the figure used to calculate ENFIA so I naturally assumed all relevant data sets would be updated. Silly me. Given that the municipality tax is about one tenth of what council tax would be in the UK and property tax and municipality combined are less than half what the council tax would be in the UK I don't think I can complain.

Warwick

Tim
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Re: Elec Bill & Tax Return property check

Postby Tim » Fri Mar 13, 2020 1:53 pm

Yes, the wording of the quoted article seems a little odd. I too have been paying TAP through my electric bill for many years. However, the sqm my TAP is assessed on is slightly larger than that detailed on my E9. Should I expect a refund when the figures are equalised?

Probably not, would be my guess.

Tim

Kilkis
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Re: Elec Bill & Tax Return property check

Postby Kilkis » Fri Mar 13, 2020 1:58 pm

As Robert Louis Stevenson wrote, Tim: "...to travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive". I am pretty sure you will find that to be the case.

Warwick

Carolina
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Re: Elec Bill & Tax Return property check

Postby Carolina » Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:35 pm

I admit that the wording is odd, hence the quote!!

The main message is to check that there is no discrepancy between your electric bill and E9 forms on the size, sqm, of your property.

YoMo2
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Re: Elec Bill & Tax Return property check

Postby YoMo2 » Sat Mar 14, 2020 9:15 am

The website quoted is saying nothing more than has been the case for years. TAP is paid on your electricity bill. The sq metres were routinely underquoted for a variety of reasons, and this would all come out in the wash when selling a house, along with lots of other stuff. :)

Once the discrepancy was established the homeowner had to pay up to 5 years back taxes, plus fines. This could add up to quite a lot, depending on the size of the discrepancy and the size of the house.

What is new is that there seems to be some sort of amnesty. So if you check the figures and declare a discrepancy, you'll only have to pay this year's back tax. Well worth checking out. Anyone found the actual website that allows us to check from the comfort of our homes? Guessing it's not yet up and running.

Andrew

PS Warwick, I can't believe you really expected all relevant databases to be updated from one change... :D

Kilkis
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Re: Elec Bill & Tax Return property check

Postby Kilkis » Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:22 pm

YoMo2 wrote:The website quoted is saying nothing more than has been the case for years...


I think the information Carol quoted is not from a website but from an email sent out by an accountant to his clients. I am pretty sure if I had tried to explain that:

    Many people have been underpaying municipality taxes on their electricity bills because the municipality does not have the correct area for the property. Normally the underpayment, going back up to five years, would need to be paid if you sold the property. The municipality now have a web site where you can update the property area so the figure recorded by the municipality agrees with that declared to the tax authority on the E9. Provided you declare the correct area before a cut off date you will only pay the difference going forward. If you fail to record the correct area you can still be charged 5 years arrears.

in Greek it would be a lot more incomprehensible than the information in the first post.

YoMo2 wrote:...PS Warwick, I can't believe you really expected all relevant databases to be updated from one change... :D


Perhaps I expressed that badly. I know that Greece is very far from a joined up system but I would have thought that the engineer carrying out the legalisation process would have informed all relevant parties including ΔΕΗ. Everyone knows that municipality taxes are collected through the electricity bills and are based based on property area, including the engineer. At the very least he could have told me that I need to inform ΔΕΗ/the municipality of the new figure.

Warwick

YoMo2
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Re: Elec Bill & Tax Return property check

Postby YoMo2 » Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:23 am

Kilkis wrote:
YoMo2 wrote:The website quoted is saying nothing more than has been the case for years...


I think the information Carol quoted is not from a website but from an email sent out by an accountant to his clients.


Maybe, but Caroline linked a website.

Kilkis wrote:...... At the very least he could have told me that I need to inform ΔΕΗ/the municipality of the new figure.


He should have, but they all work in their own little boxes don't they.

Andrew

Kilkis
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Re: Elec Bill & Tax Return property check

Postby Kilkis » Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:02 am

YoMo2 wrote:...Maybe, but Caroline linked a website...


Sorry, I didn't notice that. The wording is identical to the wording I received in an email from my accountant so I assumed, wrongly, that was where Carol had got it from. I think the rest of my comment is valid?

Warwick

evansmr1
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Re: Elec Bill & Tax Return property check

Postby evansmr1 » Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:10 pm

I have looked at my Electric bill and I am 100% certain that the indicated square footage is incorrect
Under Τ.Μ. Ακινήτου it shows 35. If this is correct then I must live in a Rabbit hutch.

I have looked at the paid yearly Tax documents and can find no reference to square metre. Can someone please point me to the correct location on my demand for payment document provided by my Accountant.

The Property is legal.
Mike
=============
Sic parvis magnaike

Kilkis
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Re: Elec Bill & Tax Return property check

Postby Kilkis » Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:30 pm

I'm not sure where you are looking on the bill, Evansmr1. I can't find the phrase "Τ.Μ. Ακινήτου" anywhere on mine, although you are correct that it does mean area of property.

Look on the back of the bill where all the charges are calculated in the right hand column. Scan down the column to near the bottom where you should see a section headed ΔΗΜΟΣ followed by the name of your municipality. Below that heading are three terms each with its own calculation, ΔΤ, ΔΦ and ΤΑΠ. Next to each item is a calculation and the first figure in that calculation is the area of the house. It has τμ above it. That is the figure the municipality and ΔΕΗ have on record.

The area of your house does not appear on the E1 tax form that your accountant sends you every year. It appears on an E9 form which is only submitted when some change occurs, e.g. change of ownership, changes to the property etc. You could ask your accountant for a copy of your E9. It also appears on the full ENFIA statement but not on the simple payment form that most accountants send to their clients. You could ask your accountant to send you your full ENFIA statement for 2019 as a pdf. The form is laid out in landscape format. Pretty much across the centre of the form is a yellow row with all the relevant information. Column 9 in that row is the area of the house, headed KYPIOI XΩPOI (τ.μ.), and column 15 is the area of the land, headed EΠIΦΑΝΕΙΑ (τ.μ.). Those are the figures the tax authority have on record.

If you look at the transfer of ownership contract that should also contain the area of the house and of the land. That may or may not be the same as on the E9. If the property has undergone a legalisation process then the contract may not agree with the E9/ENFIA statement. In that situation it usually means that the E9/ENFIA figure is bigger than in the contract either because the builder did not declare the correct size on the building permit or because the property has been altered or possibly both. The E9/ENFIA figure should be correct. If the figure in the contract and the E9/ENFIA figures do agree it might be worth going round the outside of the house with a tape measure and calculate the area yourself to see if that figure is correct.

Warwick

Kamisiana
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Re: Elec Bill & Tax Return property check

Postby Kamisiana » Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:08 pm

evansmr1 wrote:I have looked at my Electric bill and I am 100% certain that the indicated square footage is incorrect
Under Τ.Μ. Ακινήτου it shows 35. If this is correct then I must live in a Rabbit hutch.

I have looked at the paid yearly Tax documents and can find no reference to square metre. Can someone please point me to the correct location on my demand for payment document provided by my Accountant.

The Property is legal.

I would take Warwicks advice first and check house size with a tape measure on our electric bill the m2 is on the back of the bill near the bottom under DHMOS 92 x 1.89 x 61/365 ect our actual house size was 86m2 so we have overpaid for 11 years thought it was not worth rocking the boat for not very much, and as the words refund and Greece don,t go together, our neighbour tried for years and did not get anywhere.
We also legalised our house and the 86m2 was confirmed to this day do not know where the 92m2 came and as YoMo2 said they all work in their little boxes unless you owe them money good luck hope you get sorted

YoMo2
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Re: Elec Bill & Tax Return property check

Postby YoMo2 » Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:54 pm

Kilkis wrote:....... If the property has undergone a legalisation process then the contract may not agree with the E9/ENFIA statement. In that situation it usually means that the E9/ENFIA figure is bigger than in the contract either because the builder did not declare the correct size on the building permit or because the property has been altered or possibly both. The E9/ENFIA figure should be correct. If the figure in the contract and the E9/ENFIA figures do agree it might be worth going round the outside of the house with a tape measure and calculate the area yourself to see if that figure is correct.


I may be wrong, but I think "should" might have been better expressed as "needs to".

In any case, you cannot assume that just because you believe your house is legal/has been legalised, that the figure on the E9 has been updated to match the legalised area. Most engineers would expect you or your accountant to do that.

Then the engineer needs to confirm to your local council the revised sq metres. The council will pass this onto the electricity supplier for use in future bills.

Andrew

Kilkis
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Re: Elec Bill & Tax Return property check

Postby Kilkis » Sun Mar 15, 2020 3:30 pm

I agree that the E9/ENFIA figures need to be correct, Andrew, but that wasn't exactly what I was saying. I was linking together three conditions to draw a conclusion:

    1 If the contract and the E9/ENFIA don't agree AND
    2 If the house has undergone legalisation since the contract was drawn up AND
    3 If the figure on the E9/ENFIA statement is bigger than the figure on the contract THEN
    4 The figure on the E9/ENFIA is probably correct.

Obviously it wouldn't do any harm to check. I can't remember exactly who did what when I legalised my house back in 2012. I know I gave my accountant authority to provide the engineer with details from my E9. I don't know if the E9 got updated automatically as part of the legalisation process or if I/the engineer gave the completed legalisation documents to my accountant and he updated the E9. I don't have any record of doing the latter. I didn't receive the first independent ENFIA statement, i.e. not on the electricity bill, until 2015 and the areas quoted on that are correct from the legalisation process so the tax office records must have been up-to-date before 2015.

I went through the legalisation process because I thought it might be needed to transfer my late wife's 50 % ownership to me after she died in 2012. As it turned out it wasn't needed and the Notary simply took the figures from existing documents. Thus the figures on the new contract are also wrong.

Warwick


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