FULL Lockdown Monday 23 March 6a.m. in Greece

For discussion, news, comments, questions and information about Crete & Greece.
bobscott
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Re: FULL Lockdown Monday 6a.m. in Greece

Postby bobscott » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:05 pm

Tim wrote:
I believe the Douma is scheduled to hold a special sitting to work out special exemptions for pedants. :)

Tim.

Edit. I don't mean Douma, do I? I mean Vouli. A perfect example of not posting on forums when you're halfway down your second bottle of red!


And anyway Tim, it's duma (дума) not Douma. I guess Vouli (Βουλης) would work though. Have a good and safe day. Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

filippos
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Re: FULL Lockdown Monday 6a.m. in Greece

Postby filippos » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:37 pm

bobscott wrote:
Tim wrote:I believe the Douma is scheduled to hold a special sitting to work out special exemptions for pedants. :)
Tim.
Edit. I don't mean Douma, do I? I mean Vouli. A perfect example of not posting on forums when you're halfway down your second bottle of red!
And anyway Tim, it's duma (дума) not Douma. I guess Vouli (Βουλης) would work though. Have a good and safe day. Bob.

Can another pedant join in please? Bob, where does the tonos (τόνος) go on Βουλης? (Should the final ? have been in Greek ";")

Kilkis
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Re: FULL Lockdown Monday 6a.m. in Greece

Postby Kilkis » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:03 pm

Kamisiana wrote:...Sounds a bit like should I walk up Meskla gorge and ignore the hand written advice or do my own thing haho :roll:


No, Kamisiana, it is exactly the opposite.

China imposed a total lockdown. It was very simple. You cannot leave your house. At all. For any reason. Clearly that helps stop the spread of the virus but it needed other measures. The Chinese government delivered food to everybody's home so they would not starve to death. You didn't order what you want. They simply brought a standard package of food that would be sufficient to sustain you. That seems to be working.

Every country in Europe has imposed some sort of partial lockdown. The strength of the lockdown varies from country to country. The lockdown is enforced by a set of rules. The rules may appear to be simple but they do not necessarily achieve the objective, i.e. stop the spread of the virus, and they still leave open decisions. An example:

Today I wanted to buy some fish from the fish shop and some groceries from the supermarket, both in my own village. The rule is to do your shopping as infrequently as possible so, to obey the rule, I should combine my journey to the fish shop and the supermarket. The fish shop closes at 14:00 and what is available starts to decrease rapidly after 11:00 so I would need to go around 11:00 or before. If I go to the supermarket at 11:00 or before it is its busiest time. It is quite likely that I would have to wait outside for a time with a group of other people before I would be allowed in and once inside I would be quite close to other shoppers. If I went to the supermarket at 16:00, however, it would be virtually empty and I would have absolutely minimum exposure to other people. What should I do? Break the rule, go out twice and get minimum exposure or obey the rule, go out once and maximise my exposure?

The gorge example was where somebody was saying ignore a warning and put yourself in danger. I am saying constantly think about what the rule is trying to achieve and do whatever achieves that end, even if that technically breaks the rule in some way. Minimise your own exposure to others and minimise their exposure to you.

There are other examples of balances to be weighed. Normally when I go to the fish shop I buy enough fish for one meal. I prefer it fresh. The last time I went to the fish shop it was after the warning for older people to stay at home and shop as infrequently as possible but before the lockdown. I bought mackerel. I have space in my freezer so I could have bought about 10 kg of mackerel and frozen it, thus obeying the rule to shop as infrequently as possible. If I had done that, however, I would have bought all the mackerel they had on sale depriving other shoppers and achieving the equivalent of panic buying. What should I have done? Obey the rule and empty the shelf? I compromised and bought about three times what I would normally buy, i.e. 6 smallish fish rather than 2.

As with all laws in Greece the rules were written by Athenians, for Athenians based on the situation in Athens. To the political class Athens is Greece. The city of Athens has almost the same population as Crete. The area of the city of Athens is a little less than 40 sq km while Greece has an area a little over 8,000 sq km. Thus the population density in the City of Athens is 200 times the population density of Crete. While the principles of social distancing are the same wherever you are the best practical method of achieving them may vary somewhat.

I am not saying break the rules because it happens to suit you, which is what the gorge example was saying, but constantly think, "What really minimises your exposure."

Warwick

PS It is βουλή, i.e. the stress is on the last syllable, but there is no "ς" on the end.

Kilkis
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Re: FULL Lockdown Monday 6a.m. in Greece

Postby Kilkis » Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:04 pm

This Keep Talking Greece article has useful information and is also quite funny.

Warwick

chrissyg
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Re: FULL Lockdown Monday 6a.m. in Greece

Postby chrissyg » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:04 pm

Yes a lot of the rules imposed are conflicting. Here in the uk a man in the supermarket in front of me wanted to buy 5 small cartons of plant milk ( there were plenty in stock)and the cashier wouldnt let him as you are not allowed more than 3 of any item. He looked quite sad and said that will only last me a couple of days and i will have to come out again when the advice is stay at home if you can. It is all very tricky here.
Sounds worse in Crete although the Nanny Police are coming out in force to stop you walking too far from your area.
Gosh, just heard Boris has caught it along with his Health Secretary. Obviously didnt practice what he preached.

Yin&Yang
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Re: FULL Lockdown Monday 6a.m. in Greece

Postby Yin&Yang » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:09 pm

In some ways it might be better here. The stores all seem fully stocked and I haven’t noticed any restrictions on anything. I bought seven large cartons of milk the last time I shopped (no, not panic buying; my usual quota for a week as husband drinks milk like it is going out of fashion) I did notice that some brands were not in the store I use although there were plenty of alternatives.
Someday is now : )

chrissyg
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Re: FULL Lockdown Monday 6a.m. in Greece

Postby chrissyg » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:32 pm

We are still panic buying and im not surprised if we are supposed to stay in as much as possible. Shelves are still empty of toilet rolls, soap, tinned tonatoes eggs and tea in my area although i do believe it is getting a bit better now that there is rationing. We are still allowed takeaways although many of them have chosen to close. My local indian and chippy is still there, for the moment anyway. I suppose every country is doing it differently. Sounds like your movements outside are way more restrictive.
Stay calm, the storm will pass.

Carolina
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Re: FULL Lockdown Monday 6a.m. in Greece

Postby Carolina » Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:58 pm

We are banned from swimming, fishing and waterports.

The ban is valid until April 21, 2020 or for as long as lockdown measures apply.

The Ministry of Shipping and Islands Policy reportedly sent on Tuesday, March 31, a circular to all port authorities throughout the country informing about the ban that is in effect retrospective since March 23.

https://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2020/ ... atersports


P.S. It's not an April Fool .. more a clarification I believe, and here is the Greek press:-
https://flashnews.gr/post/421019/limena ... -anapsyxhs

Kilkis
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Re: FULL Lockdown Monday 23 March 6a.m. in Greece

Postby Kilkis » Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:18 pm

I'm quite surprised that these activities weren't already implicitly included in the ongoing movement clamp down? I suppose swimming is a valid form of taking exercise so you could tick box 6 but fishing?

Warwick

Kilkis
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Re: FULL Lockdown Monday 23 March 6a.m. in Greece

Postby Kilkis » Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:17 pm

There's been quite a bit of discussion on Sky News about the fact that Sweden isn't imposing strict lockdown measures. People are advised to socially distance and to stay at home but there is no legal enforcement, virtually all shops are open, most cafés, bars and restaurants are open and there seems to be lots of people on the streets. Some interesting statistics:

    1 Sweden has almost exactly the same population as Greece at around 10 million.
    2 Sweden has over three times the land area of Greece so its population density is about one third that of Greece. Spread of disease is roughly proportional to population density, i.e. everything else being equal you would expect the disease to spread three times as quickly in Greece as in Sweden.
    3 Sweden first moved from 1 confirmed case to 2 confirmed cases on 26/02/2020.
    4 Greece first moved from 1 confirmed case to 3 confirmed cases on 27/02/2020, i.e. about the same time as Sweden.
    5 Today Sweden records 6,131 confirmed cases and 358 deaths.
    6 Today Greece records 1,544 confirmed cases and 59 deaths.

For all those who think that legally enforced social distancing, stay at home and self isolation are a pain in the ... and a waste of time, think about those numbers.

Warwick

Tim
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Re: FULL Lockdown Monday 23 March 6a.m. in Greece

Postby Tim » Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:43 pm

I think the Greek government's response to the Corona virus threat, compared to other European governments, including the UK, has been absolutely first class. I know we sometimes disparage our host's ability to organise and execute, but I believe their swift and decisive actions will prove to have saved many lives.

Tim

bobscott
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Re: FULL Lockdown Monday 23 March 6a.m. in Greece

Postby bobscott » Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:35 am

Tim wrote:I think the Greek government's response to the Corona virus threat, compared to other European governments, including the UK, has been absolutely first class. I know we sometimes disparage our host's ability to organise and execute, but I believe their swift and decisive actions will prove to have saved many lives.

Tim


YES. Bob
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

Yin&Yang
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Re: FULL Lockdown Monday 23 March 6a.m. in Greece

Postby Yin&Yang » Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:07 am

Absolutely Tim.
Someday is now : )

mythos master
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Re: FULL Lockdown Monday 23 March 6a.m. in Greece

Postby mythos master » Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:37 am

It might be better if everybody followed the rules,i strongly suspect that as with taking a chance with no seatbelts,overtaking etc,a lot of people think it doesn't apply to them,here we are taking our bits of paper out for a walk,neighbours around us are in and out several times a day,having the odd bar b q,have seen 1 police car in the last 4 or so weeks,some people are still talking about opening bars etc in may,can't see that,also will people have any money or want to get on a crowded plane.
a pessimist is an optimist with experience

Jeffstclair
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Re: FULL Lockdown Monday 23 March 6a.m. in Greece

Postby Jeffstclair » Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:48 am

Yes after spending the last two weeks in the village with only 11 other people, I was apprehensive about our regular every three week trip to PAGNI on Thursday ...however the hospital was super clean very few people and we were in and out in about three hours with no drama, in 'normal 'times it can be an all day social event including cakes and coffee .. with many people in a over heated space .I have deep admiration and respect for the Nurses Doctors and staff who work in health care ...


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