Coronavirus, what happens next

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Keltz
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Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby Keltz » Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:50 pm

chrissyg wrote:I think the anti-body test will be the exit strategy, certainly in the uk where we think over 50, 000 people have already had it, some without egen knowing. A lot of workers could return to work, shops open up, schools maybe open up. It will be gradual i reckon. We are close to the tests now and it will oviously go to key workers first and then weirdly it will be available on Amazon.


Watching the Daily Briefing by Scottish First Minister on BBC news yesterday that appears to be part of their exit strategy. WIll wait to see if Boris Johnson does the same for England and Wales where they are still trying to work out how to obtain and deploy respirators and testing kits. I haven't see NI Daily Briefing although I think they are generally in line with other parts of the UK now including "Off licences have also been added to the list of essential businesses and can now stay open." definately!

chrissyg
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Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby chrissyg » Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:35 pm

Yes, Boris mentioned the antibody thing quite early on as a gamechanger but it wasnt talked about much for a while. Its definitely a good idea, it could mean we could see our families again if we knew we had had i, which i may have done back in feb before the rules. I did have a weird kind of cold and i very rarely get them. I have a 93 yr old dad living on his own and now self-isolating for 12 weeks and i miss my grown up kids too. More importantly we need to get society as a whole back on its feet again.

chrissyg
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Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby chrissyg » Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:35 pm

Yes, Boris mentioned the antibody thing quite early on as a gamechanger but it wasnt talked about much for a while. Its definitely a good idea, it could mean we could see our families again if we knew we had had i, which i may have done back in feb before the rules. I did have a weird kind of cold and i very rarely get them. I have a 93 yr old dad living on his own and now self-isolating for 12 weeks and i miss my grown up kids too. More importantly we need to get society as a whole back on its feet again.

chrissyg
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Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby chrissyg » Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:36 pm

Dont know why that came up twice-lol.

Keltz
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Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby Keltz » Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:10 pm

That is a hope I think we all share to be able to get back together again with family, chrissyg.

I also had what I thought was the flue end Feb, high temp and headache but no cough so suppose you could call it a strange flue as not like ones before. Not a bad thing to have had and quickly recover from though if it turns out to have been the virus.

chrissyg
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Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby chrissyg » Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:06 pm

Agreed. But when people say its no worse than flu, i get more worried. I had proper flu in my thirties ( had the jab ever since) and i was hospitalised with it. And flu has claimed more deaths so far here in a year than Covid. I prefer people to say its just like a bit of a cold-lol, or even better asymptomatic.
I know its difficult for everyone in different ways but the lockdown is having a worrying effect on society and economically and we have to be able to bounce back after this somehow, we cant stay in lockdown until itxall goes.

Kilkis
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Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby Kilkis » Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:44 pm

chrissyg wrote:Agreed. But when people say its no worse than flu, i get more worried...


Firstly, the people who say that think they have flue when they have a cold. Flue is extremely serious. I've had it three times in my life and on each occasion I was totally knocked out. I've had colds dozens of times and there is a very big difference.

Secondly, there isn't really an "it". All respiratory tract infections are the same. For most people they feel ill, to a greater or lesser extent, but recover from it with no serious medical intervention other than self medication with paracetamol and/or, at least in my case, plenty of coffee liberally laced with rum. That has happened to me with the three flue infections and the countless cold infections I've had so far. In a small number of cases the infection leads to pneumonia, which is probably what put you in hospital Chrissyg. The pneumonia may be just due to the virus or the inflammation, caused by the virus, may make you more susceptible to bacterial pneumonia. To recover from this usually requires hospitalisation in order to provide increased oxygen flow by one means or another and possibly intravenous antibiotics. In a yet smaller number of cases the pneumonia develops into Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome, ARDS. These are the people who need full intubated ventilation. Even if they recover many will suffer permanent lung damage and many don't recover.

The main difference between a cold, flue and SARS-CoV-2 is that the probability of passing to the more advanced stages is higher in SARS-CoV-2, especially in older people, the onset of the advanced stages is more sudden and more rapid and the severity of the advanced stages is much worse. It is not unique. The original SARS outbreak in Asia in 2003, also known as SARS-CoV and the MERS outbreak on the Arabian peninsula in 2012, also known as MERS-CoV or Camel Flue, have similar symptoms. SARS-CoV has a higher mortality rate than SARS-CoV-2 but does not spread quite as easily. MERS-CoV has a massive mortality rate, similar to Ebola, but like Ebola only passes on through direct contact so is easier to contain.

Since these diseases are all from the same family of viruses, and there are thousands of variants in a whole range of animals, the fear is that one day a variant will appear that can pass from human to human as easily as SARS-CoV-2 but with the mortality rate of MERS-CoV. That is why all governments around the world need to come down on any new virus like a ton of bricks, not pretend it is happening as China did with SARS-CoV and, to a lesser extent, with SARS-CoV-2.

It is also worth noting that even when a vaccine is developed it will be least useful in those that need it most, i.e. the old and those with compromised immune systems. Vaccines work by injecting something, a dead version of the virus, a version of the virus with reduced activity, a closely related but non/less harmful virus or some genetic material taken from the virus, which will provoke the bodies immune system to produce antibodies. Then if the person becomes infected with the virus at a later date the antibodies start fighting it without delay and so it cannot get established. Unfortunately older people tend to have less well functioning immune systems so they, together with younger people with compromised immune systems, tend not to produce enough antibodies and so may not have full immunity. It is still worth doing, because many will gain enough protection, but it is not a silver bullet.

Warwick

TweetTweet
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Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby TweetTweet » Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:23 am


paul g
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Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby paul g » Sun Apr 05, 2020 12:54 pm

kilkis wrote:
Firstly, the people who say that think they have flue when they have a cold. Flue is extremely serious. I've had it three times in my life and on each occasion I was totally knocked out. I've had colds dozens of times and there is a very big difference.



Your dead right about the flu, I had it in the early 1970's and I was floored for the best part of 3 weeks.

Kilkis
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Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby Kilkis » Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:13 pm

Personally I found the video highly unconvincing considering what we know about how it is spreading. Where test, trace, isolate regimes have been carried out effectively you can trace the spread of the disease from one person to another. What are those people doing? Carrying sprays full of poison, spraying it into the faces of others, handing the spray over to that person and then somehow convincing them to do the same? Is there any evidence for this activity? There is no 5G coverage in Greece but the disease is spreading here so how can 5G be causing it?

The way the disease is spreading and how the rate of spread responds to various control procedures, or lack of them, e.g. test, trace, isolate regimes, social distancing, total lockdown etc, are identical to what you would expect with a viral disease. This was not addressed at all in the video. If, when this has all played out, it turns out that it was a different virus from a different family and the true properties, e.g. contagion rate, death rate etc, are different from what we think today then I wouldn't be at all surprised. If it turns out that it wasn't a virus at all I would be amazed. If anybody likes a small gamble I am willing to bet anybody a bottle of Glenmorangie that it will NOT turn out to be caused by 5G.

Warwick

filippos
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Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby filippos » Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:18 pm

Just watched that. I'm not a scientist of any type nor do I have any medical background or competence (except for a cousin who is a doctor but I haven't spoken to her in at least 30 years) so I'm highly qualified to comment.

I think this doctor is good at stories but the story has faults. There are too many "..are pretty much identical with..." "so close to identical that we can assume" "...I couldn't find a paper on this..." "...I managed to find a paper on this.." and a string of similar qualifications.
I think he's formulated a theory and gone looking for evidence that supports that theory.

He may be well intentioned or he could be a snake oil salesman. Either way I wouldn't rely on his theory; I'd rather trust the theories and opinions of the welter of medical/scientific experts who are turning their brains, expertise and experience to finding a solution, despite not having a very high opinion of many alleged experts* who often seem to 'spin' their theories as better than the reality and some are just seeking greater research funding. Nope, he hasn't convinced me.

* I read somewhere that an expert is defined as "a drip under pressure".

filippos
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Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby filippos » Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:25 pm

Crikey, a scientist and a cynic in agreement. Does that make us jointly a cynical scientist?

Kamisiana
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Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby Kamisiana » Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:28 pm



Yes and the earth is flat so I am going to hide around the corner until the virus has gone

Peter Mcwilliams quote


The media tends to report rumors, speculations, and projections as facts... How does the media do this? By quoting some 'expert'... you can always find some expert who will say something hopelessly hopeless about anything.

TweetTweet
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Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby TweetTweet » Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:13 pm

The video wasn't saying 5G caused this.

In vitro studies have shown that electromagnetic radiation has detrimental effect on cell oxygen metabolism. If you are interested, you could have a look at e.g. reactive oxygen species, malondialdehyde, superoxide dismutase....

I don't think there are in vivo studies.

Apparently one poster believes the earth is flat :) Never mind.

"The media tends to report rumors, speculations, and projections as facts... How does the media do this? By quoting some 'expert'... you can always find some expert who will say something hopelessly hopeless about anything."

I couldn't agree more.

Kilkis
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Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby Kilkis » Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:44 pm

Perhaps the "scientist" in the video is correct? He thinks everything medical experts are detecting are exosomes not a virus. He also makes it very clear that exosomes are intrinsic to the body, not external. He also makes it clear that it takes some sort of external agent to provoke the body to expel these exosomes from its cells and create problems. He doesn't know what that external something is but he thinks scientists should pay close attention to 5G. He also mentions poisons and infections, e.g. like flu which is caused by a virus. OK I'll buy that his theory is a possibility. If it turns out his theory is correct then my bet is that it is a virus that is causing the body to expel exosomes from its cells causing the disease and I would place my money on a virus designated SARS-CoV-2.

Warwick

PS I have personally been exposed to EM fields for long periods, i.e. hours at a time, repeatedly over many years across the whole radio wave spectrum from 50 Hz to 18 GHz at field strengths ranging from 20 kV/m at the low frequency end to 200 V/m across the band 10 kHz to 18 GHz. I have suffered no ill effects whatsoever. Neither did any of my colleagues who who were similarly exposed. I would not hesitate to expose myself to such field strengths again if the need arose.


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