Coronavirus, what happens next

For discussion, news, comments, questions and information about Crete & Greece.
paul g
Posts: 205
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:20 pm
Location: Nr. Kato Gouves

Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby paul g » Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:38 pm

don't stand in front of the small microwave dishes (transmitter) they can cook your insides, the bigger dishes are the receivers.

TweetTweet
Posts: 332
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:35 am

Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby TweetTweet » Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:44 pm

"PS I have personally been exposed to EM fields for long periods, i.e. hours at a time, repeatedly over many years across the whole radio wave spectrum from 50 Hz to 18 GHz at field strengths ranging from 20 kV/m at the low frequency end to 200 V/m across the band 10 kHz to 18 GHz. I have suffered no ill effects whatsoever. Neither did any of my colleagues who who were similarly exposed. I would not hesitate to expose myself to such field strengths again if the need arose."

Very probably you believe that but you don't know that actually - you said somewhere else:

"I take regular medication for a whole host of chronic conditions."

I might speculate that chronic conditions arise for a variety of reasons e.g.genetic pre-disposition, lifesyle choices and so on. EMR exposure might well *enhance* certain latent potentialities.

bobscott
Posts: 2640
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:36 pm
Location: Kokkino Horio

Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby bobscott » Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:56 pm

Kilkis wrote:Personally I found the video highly unconvincing considering what we know about how it is spreading. Where test, trace, isolate regimes have been carried out effectively you can trace the spread of the disease from one person to another. What are those people doing? Carrying sprays full of poison, spraying it into the faces of others, handing the spray over to that person and then somehow convincing them to do the same? Is there any evidence for this activity? There is no 5G coverage in Greece but the disease is spreading here so how can 5G be causing it?

If anybody likes a small gamble I am willing to bet anybody a bottle of Glenmorangie that it will NOT turn out to be caused by 5G.

Warwick


To be honest, I watched the first 10 seconds and got rid of it. 'Another Yankee Quack trying to get in on the act' was my thought at the time. Seems I might have been right! Can join you in the wager against 5G but my preference would be Talisker. Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

Kilkis
Posts: 11529
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby Kilkis » Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:20 pm

Yes, I have elevated blood pressure as did my father, as did my mother, as did my maternal grandmother. I have elevated cholesterol levels as did my father as did my maternal grandmother. Let's attribute it to electromagnetic fields, where there is little or no causal evidence, and completely ignore genetics, bad diet, too much alcohol, being overweight and not taking enough exercise, which all have proven causal links.

As an aside the cholesterol level is only classed as elevated today. Twenty years ago it was classed as normal. Same level. My blood pressure is only classed as elevated today. Thirty years ago it would have been classed as normal, i.e. 100 plus your age and I am well below that even without medication.

Finally this is a quote from a WHO article, my emphasis in red:

    "However, screens with liquid crystal displays used in some laptop computers and desktop units do not give rise to significant electric and magnetic fields. Modern computers have conductive screens which reduce the static field from the screen to a level similar to that of the normal background in the home or workplace. At the position of operators (30 to 50 cm from the screen), alternating magnetic fields are typically below 0.7 µT in flux density (at power frequencies). Alternating electric field strengths at operator positions range from below 1 V/m up to 10 V/m.

It looks like the people who carried out the in-vitro tests overcooked it a bit, i.e. one or two orders of magnitude, by using 150 to 220 V/m.

Warwick

TweetTweet
Posts: 332
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:35 am

Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby TweetTweet » Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:38 pm

Kilkis wrote:Yes, I have elevated blood pressure as did my father, as did my mother, as did my maternal grandmother. I have elevated cholesterol levels as did my father as did my maternal grandmother. Let's attribute it to electromagnetic fields, where there is little or no causal evidence, and completely ignore genetics, bad diet, too much alcohol, being overweight and not taking enough exercise, which all have proven causal links.

As an aside the cholesterol level is only classed as elevated today. Twenty years ago it was classed as normal. Same level. My blood pressure is only classed as elevated today. Thirty years ago it would have been classed as normal, i.e. 100 plus your age and I am well below that even without medication.Warwick


So your maternal granny would have been born circa what, 1890 perhaps -? Cholesterol testing didn't really take off until WAY later than that. A very common reason (then or now) for elevated cholesterol (specifically HIGH LDL -v- HDL) is due to low thyroid function.

I agree what was considered within a *normal range* (for both cholesterol and blood pressue) has become unpopular because if someone can be persuaded onto e.g statins, it's win win win for the prescribing doc (and therefore phamaceutical companies) (in the UK anyway) and ditto BP medication.

i.e. 100 plus your age and I am well below that even without medication. - so that would mean systolic about 174 ? However (probably for people over 60) the more important measurement is the dystolic/resting reading.

Have you ever had any genetic tests e.g. for familial hyperaldosteronism ? OBVIOUSLY LIFESTYLE CHOICES will ALWAYS be implicated - as you say bad diet, too much booze and not enough exercise will obviously be implicated and very likely exacerbated due to current levels of EMFs.

Kilkis
Posts: 11529
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby Kilkis » Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:19 am

Have you measured the level of EMF you are exposed to on a regular basis? Do you know the field strength v frequency profile in your environment? How do you know what "elevated levels of EMF" you are being exposed to? I've spent my whole career working with electromagnetism in one form or another and you are not going to convince me, TweetTweet. Believe the stories if you wish.

Warwick

PS I notice you don't comment on the discrepancy in the official EMF figures for an LCD display quoted by WHO and those used by the researchers you quote. Would they have got a positive result if they had exposed the samples to the WHO levels? Do they know what the coupling factor is between a body and fields at those low frequencies? They were exposing blood directly in vitro. What level of EMF would blood flowing inside the body be exposed to?

Kookla
Posts: 116
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 4:24 pm

Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby Kookla » Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:16 pm

I’ve just read in the Chania Post. Eu that in collaboration with Technical University of Crete, George ( respected accountant of many in Hania) have made predictions for the projection of the virus and its curve. That we may have reached our peak at the beginning of April with hopefully a drop-off mid-May.

paul g
Posts: 205
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:20 pm
Location: Nr. Kato Gouves

Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby paul g » Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:09 am

paul g wrote:Times Like These - Foo Fighters.


do you think BBC R1 live lounge allstars read this forum?

Kamisiana
Posts: 348
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:06 pm

Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby Kamisiana » Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:59 am

Covert-19 (the Chinese virus) must be ending, Barnier has started dribbling again.

Kilkis
Posts: 11529
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby Kilkis » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:16 pm

Getting back to the original question of "what happens next?" I have a feeling that those of us of a geriatric persuasion are going to get screwed. This Keep Talking Greece article has the following statements, my emphasis in red:

    Petsas also said that the government’s intention is to lift the obligation of Movement Permits, that is to send SMS or to have handwritten form as of May 4. However, the free movement for the elderly and vulnerable groups can be permitted later and not immediately.

    According to the circulating scenarios, small stores, hairdressers and beauty salons are expected to start on May 4, big shopping malls after May 20. Reopening of cafes, bars and restaurants is scheduled to take place May 25 to June 5.

While nothing is certain until Mitsotakis announces it, I read into those two statements that when cafés, bars and restaurants start to reopen towards the end of May we won't be able to go to them because they won't be part of the movement orders and we will still need to use the movement orders. Obviously that depends on what "later and not immediately" means but my bet is months. More shops opening is debatable. Item 2 on the movement order is for essential shopping but who decides what is essential to me. If a paint shop is open, for example, and I need paint then going to a paint shop is essential as far as I am concerned.

Warwick

PS Despite not having very much hair left, what bit there is still grows so a trip to a hairdresser would also be welcome.

PPS Talking to my pharmacist on Friday I think wearing of face masks in public is also going to become compulsory in some circumstances. She mentioned on public transport as one example but there may be others. I believe a Greek company is setting up to manufacture cloth ones to avoid everybody buying up stocks of medical grade ones. The purpose is to stop you infecting other people if you unknowingly have the virus rather than to protect you from somebody else who has the virus.

Guy M
Posts: 467
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:20 pm
Location: Kalamitsi Alexandrou

Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby Guy M » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:52 pm

These discussions on what happens next are similar in many countries.

In the U.K. there’s talk of children going back to school by end May, possibly with 2 weeks on then 2 weeks off so class sizes are halved. My daughters will riot if they have to go back to school before September.....

Construction firms like Wimpey have said they will resume from early May.

Restaurants would have to have restrictions on numbers and pub gardens (again with number restrictions) also opening is a possibility later in the summer.

Public transport is v problematic. Lots of debate about the effectiveness of face masks. Would you risk going on a tube in London any time son unless you had to? Flights? Who knows? There may not be so many given the ness airlines are in. Most people agree Richard Branson should sell his island before he gets a bailout. We’re resigned to not getting to Crete as planned this summer.

Not much serious discussion of how countries deal with the economic consequences, though some thoughts of a one-off wealth tax as there was at the end of WW1.

bobscott
Posts: 2640
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:36 pm
Location: Kokkino Horio

Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby bobscott » Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:35 pm

The really depressing thing about the UK is that there don't seem to be any politicians in the Government who can even begin to comprehend what it is all about, much less have ideas on how to phase in a return to whatever brand of 'normality' we end up with. The mantra 'we are guided by the science' is wearing a bit thin and seems to be being used as a cover-up for a lack of ideas.

Maybe we should solve this problem at a stroke and everyone have a good dose of Dettol at 8pm next Thursday night!

Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

Kilkis
Posts: 11529
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby Kilkis » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:04 pm

The scientists are informing the government but they are not telling the government what they should do. That was made pretty clear yesterday when the Chief Medical Officers of Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England were answering questions at the Science Select Committee. They seem to speak with pretty much one voice.

From Whitty's replies to questions it seems pretty clear that the way SAGE operates is to consider a number of possible scenarios and try to predict what the outcome of each possible scenario would be purely from a scientific point of view. They do not perform any formal economic analysis. They then present their findings in a comprehensible form without the politicians needing to understand the science behind it. The government would then take advice from another group, e.g. the Treasury and the Bank of England, on the economic impact of the different scenarios. The government then has to weigh up the options and make a decision considering both sets of advice. The two sets of advice also interact because economic conditions always have a health outcome. Not an easy job.

Warwick

bobscott
Posts: 2640
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:36 pm
Location: Kokkino Horio

Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby bobscott » Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:35 pm

Kilkis wrote:The scientists are informing the government but they are not telling the government what they should do. That was made pretty clear yesterday when the Chief Medical Officers of Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England were answering questions at the Science Select Committee. They seem to speak with pretty much one voice.

From Whitty's replies to questions it seems pretty clear that the way SAGE operates is to consider a number of possible scenarios and try to predict what the outcome of each possible scenario would be purely from a scientific point of view. They do not perform any formal economic analysis. They then present their findings in a comprehensible form without the politicians needing to understand the science behind it. The government would then take advice from another group, e.g. the Treasury and the Bank of England, on the economic impact of the different scenarios. The government then has to weigh up the options and make a decision considering both sets of advice. The two sets of advice also interact because economic conditions always have a health outcome. Not an easy job.

Warwick


Yes, I understand all that and agree. No, it is not an easy job, but I still stick by what I said at the beginning of my post, that there appears to be a shortage of politicians who can even try to think of a way out of this. All the time we are being fobbed off with everything but the real truth. What is it they say, 'lies, damned lies and statistics! ' Half the time, they seem incapable of even knowing the right questions to ask let alone having the nous to prepare answers to questions which are obviously going to be asked at the daily briefiings!! Testing, PPE, even Lockdown; all amateurish fiascos. The inability to even consider looking just a bit outside of the box, revising the 'procedures' to fit the new, 'unprecedented' situation is astonishing. How clever do you need to be to consider asking qualified logistics experts to help out, to ask medical labs up and down the country to help prepare testing capabilities, getting some proper IT people to design databases which don't run out of capacity after a few minutes, or develop an app for a smart phone when such things are already in existence and being used in other countries, etc etc?

It's time someone at the top of our so-called leadership team got a grip on what is going on, looked around elsewhere to see what others are doing and then work on that instead of continually wanting to 'reinvent the wheel' according to UK tradition.

Never thought I would ever say this, but BRING BACK BORIS as soon as possible! Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

Kamisiana
Posts: 348
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:06 pm

Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby Kamisiana » Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:12 pm

WIZZ AIR re start flights from Luton next week (do ya feel lucky) :shock:
Also added a new route to the DRC Kinshasa airport 7 night B&b stay in Ebola virus villages 8)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... tions.html


Return to “General Discussion & News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests