Coronavirus, what happens next

For discussion, news, comments, questions and information about Crete & Greece.
Tim
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Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby Tim » Sun May 03, 2020 5:01 pm

Jean wrote:Apparently I am not the only one to be confused about masks: https://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2020/ ... ronavirus/


Thanks for that, Jean. I had no idea whether or not to take one into town tomorrow. I've made one out of a sock (couldn't bring myself to cut up my only bra) and it's as ridiculous as it is ineffective but will take it with me just in case. Also - love the video of the world's tamest tsunami on the same page!

Tim

Mixos
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Location: North East Crete or S.W.England

Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby Mixos » Sun May 03, 2020 6:31 pm

Tim, I think you need to explain why you have a bra at all, even if it's only one.

Tim
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Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby Tim » Sun May 03, 2020 6:36 pm

Mixos wrote:Tim, I think you need to explain why you have a bra at all, even if it's only one.



Ahh .... doesn't ... everyo ..

Please disregard my previous post in its entirety.

Tim

Yin&Yang
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Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby Yin&Yang » Mon May 04, 2020 9:58 am

I visited Kalyves this morning, face mask and gloves donned, and was disappointed to see so many people, perhaps 75% of them, wearing no face mask amongst other people, nor inside whilst shopping! I fear it won’t be long before we are locked down again.
Someday is now : )

Keltz
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Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby Keltz » Mon May 04, 2020 10:36 am

My understanding is that face masks are only needed in shops or other public places where the 2 meter distance rule cannot easily be observed. Gloves are only needed in shops.

Yin&Yang
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Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby Yin&Yang » Mon May 04, 2020 10:52 am

I was inside the shop of the garden centre shoulder to shoulder with other people wearing neither face masks nor gloves. I had the same experience in the greengrocers I go to. The 2m rule was not observed and apart from the staff (in both places) not a mask in sight.
Someday is now : )

Jean
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Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby Jean » Mon May 04, 2020 10:56 am

I visited Kalyves this morning, face mask and gloves donned, and was disappointed to see so many people, perhaps 75% of them, wearing no face mask amongst other people, nor inside whilst shopping! I fear it won’t be long before we are locked down again.

There have been no Covid-19 cases in Crete for over 3 weeks and the island is still effectively cut off from the rest of the world. So what exactly would you be preventing by wearing a face mask?

Yin&Yang
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Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby Yin&Yang » Mon May 04, 2020 11:02 am

Apart from observing the rules which I consider extremely important, I am wearing my face mask out of respect to those around me. There have been no recorded cases of Covid 19 it is true but it does not mean that there are NO cases on the island. I also believe that we should begin to get into the habit of doing these things. There undoubtedly will be a second wave and I want to be ready for it and know that I have done my best not to infect others, nor be infected.

Lynn
Someday is now : )

Kilkis
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Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby Kilkis » Mon May 04, 2020 11:15 am

I think one possible reason for some confusion is caused in relating the old rules to the new ones. Under the old controls you did not need to wear a mask while in a supermarket. Today they have opened up smaller stores with a requirement to wear a mask while inside the store. I suspect many people are assuming that masks are still not required in supermarkets. Whether they are or not I have no idea but I wore one this morning. I didn't see anybody else wearing one apart from the supermarket staff who have all been wearing them since day one. I think that in principle Keltz is right but is 2m distancing possible in supermarkets? It certainly isn't in my local one and I am not sure about the bigger ones like Lidl and AB.

I also went to the hairdressers this morning and, pretty obviously, I had to remove the mask while he cut my hair. He was wearing one but finding it very difficult to breath. Like Jean I think the risk on Crete at the moment is probably zero so it doesn't worry me taking the mask off for a specific reason but I also agree with Lynn that we need to get into the habit of doing things differently. It won't be long before travel to Crete from the mainland is opened up and that is when there will be high risk of a second peak in infections.

Wearing a mask for the first time I found that with the surgical style masks it is quite difficult to get the mask to seal tightly around your nose. Exhaled air then comes up any gap and really steams up glasses since it is channelled directly onto them. It makes you realise how much moisture you are exhaling. It is not the same as walking into a room when it is cold outside. In that case the glasses mist up as moisture in the warm air condenses on the cold lenses. After a short time the glasses warm up, the moisture evaporates and the glasses become clear again. With a mask you are blowing warm moist air onto them every time you exhale so the misting up is pretty much continuous. After much faffing about with the plastic strip embedded in the mask I got it to seal enough so that I could see most of the time but I would imagine it could be a problem with improvised masks?

Nothing to do with masks but my smart phone just updated its operating system. That involved a complete reboot so my UK SIM had to reconnect to a Greek network. I immediately received two of the automatic public health alerts warning me that all travellers to Greece must self isolate for 14 days, both sent to the UK number, not my Greek Vodafone number. No visitor to Greece with a foreign SIM could claim that they didn't know they were supposed to self isolate. Obviously there is no guarantee that they will. I do not know if the government logs when a message is sent to a particular phone, rather than a general alert, but if they do and the person was found out and about the police might be able to demonstrate that they were deliberately flouting self isolation rules.

Warwick

Jean
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Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby Jean » Mon May 04, 2020 11:42 am

I didn't see anybody else wearing one apart from the supermarket staff who have all been wearing them since day one.

Shop staff must wear masks. The law is very clear on that. I am still waiting to find out if customers in supermarkets are legally required to do so.
You're right Yin&Yang we'll probably need to get used to it for the future.

Andy
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Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby Andy » Mon May 04, 2020 12:18 pm


Kilkis
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Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby Kilkis » Mon May 04, 2020 1:05 pm

Very useful, Andy.

So, according to that table, as far as the general public is concerned they don't need to use medical grade masks at all and it is only compulsory for them to wear non-medical grade masks on public transport, in lifts and in medical establishments. In all other indoor establishments use of non-medical masks is recommended for the public but not compulsory. Not exactly what was described in the media?

Warwick

Jean
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Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby Jean » Mon May 04, 2020 1:56 pm

Here is another explanation in English about wearing masks:

MANDATORY
Employees and passengers in public transportation and taxis
Employees and customers / patients in medical centres, doctors’ practices and hospitals
Supermarket employees handling loose goods (e.g. the cheese counter)
Employees at hair salons and beauty parlours
People using elevators – note that the elevators need to be occupied up to only 40% of their capacity

NOT MANDATORY, BUT STRONGLY SUGGESTED
Shop employees – this includes supermarket employees who are not handling loose goods
Customers in all stores, including hair salons and beauty parlours
It is fine to use any type of mask, including homemade ones.

Here is an interesting visual explanation of why masks are a good thing. https://www.west-crete.com/masks.jpg The language is Spanish but it's pretty self-explanatory. Not sure if the stats are made-up and if not who did the research but anyway, a good example and one gets the idea.

Keltz
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Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby Keltz » Mon May 04, 2020 2:48 pm

Advice to wear face mask in shops was made clear in link below. To add to the other instructions posted on here.

"Mandatory use of masks in public transportation, barbershops, hairdressers, beauty salons, grocery stores and other services that require physical contact between employee and customer"

https://covid19.gov.gr/wp-content/uploa ... .20_EN.pdf

Kilkis
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Re: Coronavirus, what happens next

Postby Kilkis » Mon May 04, 2020 4:27 pm

Jean wrote:...Here is an interesting visual explanation of why masks are a good thing. ...Not sure if the stats are made-up and if not who did the research but anyway, a good example and one gets the idea.


In general terms the visualisation fits with everything I have heard from various medical and scientific sources. Talking purely in terms of the general public, if someone susceptible wears one to protect against virus from somebody who is infected and not wearing one the reduction in infection is relatively small, i.e. the drop from 90 % to 70 % in the visualisation. When you couple that with the worldwide shortage of masks you understand why the WHO advised against general usage. Medical practitioners wear a variety of protective equipment chosen to suit the particular situation based on best medical practise.

I saw one medical expert give an estimate that if someone who is infected wears a non-medical mask to protect others the reduction in infection rate is a factor 36. Since we don't know who is infected and who isn't that has to be interpreted as everyone wearing one in any situation where they can't maintain a decent distance. That figure is in the middle of figures given in the bottom two illustrations. I wouldn't treat the numbers as gospel but I think they are a good indication.

I just received a batch of washable cotton masks from this company. I ordered them online around midday on Tuesday 28 April and they arrived by courier this afternoon. Not a bad turn round given that Friday was a national holiday and their store is closed for physical customers. I wouldn't say they are wonderful. There is no plastic strip to shape around the nose so they are even worse for misting up glasses than the medical type. The pieces that go round the ears are not elasticated and they are sold as one size so anybody with a small head is probably going to find them a bit loose. I have the opposite problem. Open goal there for you Kamisiana.

Warwick


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