Praise for the Greek government

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Carolina
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Re: Praise for the Greek government

Postby Carolina » Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:41 pm

150 of these new cases were registered among the residents of a refugee shelter in Kranidi, in the Peloponnese.

https://www.ekathimerini.com/251878/art ... -up-to-121

I don't think they are under reporting - Tsiodras daily briefing is really analytical, mentions areas of any new outbreaks etc and also mentions new tests and trial treatments, ongoing research into vaccines etc.

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Re: Praise for the Greek government

Postby YoMo2 » Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:27 am

Carolina wrote:........I don't think they are under reporting...........


I'd like to believe you are right, but it doesn't feel like it. For example, there are apparently nil reported cases in Corinth prefecture. Geographically, a crossroads, and with a decent sized town/city. I struggle to believe that. Also, only 8 cases on Lesvos, with it's overcrowded refugee camp? Seems unlikely.

I'm not saying there's a cover-up of some sort. I just don't think the system is picking up the real numbers.

Andrew

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Re: Praise for the Greek government

Postby Jean » Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:24 am

I'm not saying there's a cover-up of some sort. I just don't think the system is picking up the real numbers.

Remember that the level of testing is quite low in Greece which means that mild cases will generally go undiscovered and unreported.

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Re: Praise for the Greek government

Postby Kilkis » Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:01 am

Could somebody who follows the Greek news closely report on what is being discussed about lifting restrictions. I don't think "when" is that vital but knowing something about "how" would be useful. While Greece is still recording new cases everyday the numbers are starting to get small so I would have thought that discussions on what steps they intend to take would be quite advanced, e.g. what they see as the order of relaxation. Some countries are talking about compulsory wearing of simple washable cloth face masks, i.e. not medical ones, when out of the house. Is that being considered in Greece and are they widely available? Is there much talk about test, trace, isolate and have they ramped up local testing capacity enough to be able to do it effectively? The UK government is not discussing these things at all publicly, which is not unreasonable given that they are still near the peak of the infection curve, but I would have thought that Greece would be.

Warwick

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Re: Praise for the Greek government

Postby altohb » Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:32 pm


YoMo2
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Re: Praise for the Greek government

Postby YoMo2 » Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:23 pm

Jean wrote:
I'm not saying there's a cover-up of some sort. I just don't think the system is picking up the real numbers.

Remember that the level of testing is quite low in Greece which means that mild cases will generally go undiscovered and unreported.


To be fair, that's probably the case in most countries.

Andrew

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Re: Praise for the Greek government

Postby Kilkis » Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:38 pm

Yes, I tend to see stuff in ekathimerini but the information is a bit thin. I assumed there was a much wider debate going on in the Greek language media, especially on TV. I was trying to get a feel for that.

For example there is a discussion about the tourist season in the 21 April part of Crete Tip which I find a bit worrying. The test currently used to diagnose if someone has the virus only works when the virus is active. Most people come on holiday for either one or two weeks. The median incubation time for the virus is around 5 days. Some people could have caught the virus just before they come, all test completely negative and so be allowed to travel and half of them would become contagious during the stay with plenty of time to pass it on to locals dealing with them. Virtually all of those here for two weeks would become contagious with time to pass on the virus. I completely understand that for people working in the tourism sector getting it up and working again is a major priority but there is no easy way to mitigate against importing the virus into the country. Not letting tourists in would cripple the tourist industry. Letting them in could spark another outbreak and associated second lockdown that would cripple all the economy.

Warwick

PS In the above description the terms "half" and "virtually all" don't apply to the total number that come. They refer to the number that contract the virus in their own countries just before they come. In 2018 Greece had 33 million visitors. Let's guess that 20 million are summer tourists and 13 million other visitors. Suppose that number is halved because people are frightened to travel and halved again because the tourist season is short. That could mean 5 million tourists arriving between July and September all around Greece. You don't need a big percentage of them to be infected but pass the test to cause significant outbreaks, especially in major tourist areas.

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Re: Praise for the Greek government

Postby Jean » Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:59 pm

To be fair, that's probably the case in most countries.

Andrew

Yes, certainly compared to the UK but many countries do far more testing (per inhabitant) than Greece. But considering that Greece seems to have a very good handle on the crisis spending a lot of resources on testing might not be a priority.

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Re: Praise for the Greek government

Postby Kamisiana » Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:10 pm

In 2018 Greece had 33 million visitors. Let's guess that 20 million are summer tourists and 13 million other visitors. Suppose that number is halved because people are frightened to travel and halved again because the tourist season is short. That could mean 5 million tourists arriving between July and September all around Greece. You don't need a big percentage of them to be infected but pass the test to cause significant outbreaks, especially in major tourist areas.[/quote]

GOOD GOD I had not thought of it like that,
How lucky were Greece Covid-19 did not arrive in peak season lets say July/August (phew)

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Re: Praise for the Greek government

Postby Carolina » Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:16 pm

Kilkis wrote:Could somebody who follows the Greek news closely report on what is being discussed about lifting restrictions. I don't think "when" is that vital but knowing something about "how" would be useful. While Greece is still recording new cases everyday the numbers are starting to get small so I would have thought that discussions on what steps they intend to take would be quite advanced, e.g. what they see as the order of relaxation. Some countries are talking about compulsory wearing of simple washable cloth face masks, i.e. not medical ones, when out of the house. Is that being considered in Greece and are they widely available? Is there much talk about test, trace, isolate and have they ramped up local testing capacity enough to be able to do it effectively? The UK government is not discussing these things at all publicly, which is not unreasonable given that they are still near the peak of the infection curve, but I would have thought that Greece would be.

Warwick


It's not really being reported too much at the moment, about the most that I have heard/read seems to be
1) Open up the lockdown slowly starting with small shops.
2) Hope that domestic tourism will take off in the summer months as international arrivals are expected to be low (whenever that may be).

At the daily Government briefing they have so far refused to discuss any dates, reporters seem to ask daily but the governemen answer is always ' it depends, we are discussing this & we will do it when the time is right' .

The end of the official lockdown date is nearing, April 27th, next Monday. Expect to hear some news by the end of this week as to whether they will extend or start opening up.

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Re: Praise for the Greek government

Postby Carolina » Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:26 pm

All the cases reported in Greece are from confirmed hospital or clinics' testing... i.e those turning up at hospitals & clinics.

There's an article on flashnews local website today about Chania hospital, it's in Greek but you can Google translate:

' Daily alarm due to the coronavirus at Chania Hospital'
https://flashnews.gr/post/423076/kathhm ... eio-xaniwn

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Re: Praise for the Greek government

Postby Carolina » Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:38 pm

Just seen this, publsihed today but don't take any of it as 100% certain until announced at the briefings:

(In Greek again)
https://flashnews.gr/post/423099/eleyth ... -sto-13033

Google translation:
"As the government spokesman Stelios Petsas informed, the lifting of the measures will be gradual while there will be a 15-day re-examination of the situation.for the three days of May Day, all the restrictions that apply now will apply, so the movement SMS will be mandatory in 13033.

The lifting of the measures may be at the gates, but the traffic SMS in 13033 will not leave our daily lives so easily. According to information, some will be extended as the restriction lifting relationship progresses.
The government's plan is said to include special care for people over the age of 65 and those suffering from serious illnesses.

It is estimated that the restriction on travel will be extended for these categories of citizens. This is one of the reasons why sms in 13033 will remain in our lives for quite some time to come. At least until mid-June, the use of sms with changes will be required to move.
At the same time, the SMS we send every day when we leave the house will not be the same. From May 4, when there will be the opening of small shops and cafes, several codes will be removed, such as the transition to the supermarket or the pharmacy.

One of the scenarios considered by the government wants the restriction on the transition to another municipality to remain, as there is still concern in Maximou about the risk of forgiveness. According to information, government officials do not want in any case in the first week of lifting the measures to call the television footage with a mass descent of citizens living in the northern suburbs in Glyfada and in areas with sea.
For this reason, the possibility of extending travel restrictions to other municipalities for about 20 days is being considered."


As you can see, still many ifs, buts and possibles.

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Re: Praise for the Greek government

Postby Kilkis » Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:19 pm

Carolina wrote:...At the daily Government briefing they have so far refused to discuss any dates, reporters seem to ask daily but the governemen answer is always ' it depends, we are discussing this & we will do it when the time is right' ...

Thanks Carol. That is pretty much how the UK government is behaving. I think behavioural psychologists are advising them that if you start talking about relaxing before you are going to do it you weaken the social distancing message. I can understand that but you also have the British Retail Consortium telling government that they need up to 7 weeks warning in order to prepare to reopen the shops that are closed, especially if staff will be required to wear some form of PPE. That sounds a bit much to me but certainly some time will be needed. The UK hasn't gone through the peak yet so I suspect reopening is some way off but Greece seems to be getting quite close and they have been talking about taking the first steps in early May.

Carolina wrote:...There's an article on flashnews local website today about Chania hospital, it's in Greek but you can Google translate:

' Daily alarm due to the coronavirus at Chania Hospital'
https://flashnews.gr/post/423076/kathhm ... eio-xaniwn

I think that is to be expected. The initial COVID-19 symptoms are like many other illnesses so you need to treat every case as potentially being due to COVID-19.

Carolina wrote:...[i]"As the government spokesman Stelios Petsas informed, the lifting of the measures will be gradual while there will be a 15-day re-examination of the situation.for the three days of May Day, all the restrictions that apply now will apply, so the movement SMS will be mandatory in 13033...

I can understand that they would want to apply the same strict lockdown for May Day as they did for Pascha but I am not sure I understand the reference to "13033 SMS remaining mandatory" in this sentence and many others in the article. I understood use of 13033 had NOT been made mandatory and use of the official form or a written declaration on plain paper was still allowed? Is that understanding wrong? I have been using the form for my few trips out, a total of 6 in March and 4 so far in April. Should I only be using 13033?

Warwick

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Re: Praise for the Greek government

Postby Carolina » Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:30 pm

Kilkis wrote:I can understand that they would want to apply the same strict lockdown for May Day as they did for Pascha but I am not sure I understand the reference to "13033 SMS remaining mandatory" in this sentence and many others in the article. I understood use of 13033 had NOT been made mandatory and use of the official form or a written declaration on plain paper was still allowed? Is that understanding wrong? I have been using the form for my few trips out, a total of 6 in March and 4 so far in April. Should I only be using 13033?

Warwick


They often seem to refer to the 13033 in articles as the general permission system, but forms are ok too.

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Re: Praise for the Greek government

Postby Kilkis » Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:33 pm

Thanks Carol. I thought I had missed some announcement. I will carry on with the forms.

Warwick


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