Britons urged to travel to Greece this summer

[Clio]

https://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2020/ ... r-islands/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52644816

[Guy M]

So, who is relieved that they're living here in Greece? Who is happy that they're living back in the UK?

Being in the U.K. is strange. Fine if you’ve got decent housing, live in a house with people you want to be with etc. Awful if you’re a frontline worker with inadequate PPE, or living in rubbish accommodation with an abusive partner - domestic violence cases have gone through the roof since lockdown.

We’re saving money - there’s a lot of ways we can’t waste it any more and the government is paying me to stay at home. But, neighbours are in a shared house with all 5 of them junior doctors at the local hospital - they’re having a very different experience. As is the postman or the supermarket checkout people I see. There’s a lot of talk about the virus not discriminating, but the consequences of the virus definitely do discriminate - even today, manual workers were encouraged to go back to work while those of us with better paid office jobs are told to stay at home.

Reluctantly, we probably won’t come to Crete this summer, though it seems much, much better there. It’s hard to get to, and I can’t imagine it’s anything other than a burden to have visitors.

[bobscott]

http://apokoronasourhome.com/AOH/Daily_Bulletin.html


The link has some astonishing stuff in it for today's bulletin (Click on Daily bulletin on the top line and scroll down to Latest). It will be absolutely fascinating to see how the various taverna owners and bar owners in Almyrida cope with the regulations for opening an 'organised' beach - hitherto considered to be one with beach beds and umbrellas. There seems to be little they can all agree already, never mind this 'fantasy land' stuff. One imagines lots of people with tape measures wandering around gesticulating, stamping their feet etc! The news about opening the doors to tourists is also interesting. Bob

[Clio]

ros21.m asked:

So, who is relieved that they're living here in Greece? Who is happy that they're living back in the UK?

Bearing in mind that most expats in Crete tend to be, shall we say, past the first flush of youth, and that the majority of members of this forum are from the UK, you may feel, having read this, that there's no contest.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... data-shows

The report doesn't distinguish between the member nations but given all the other stuff that's going on I can tell you that I'm jolly glad I chose to live in Scotland. Apart from the fact that my remote neck of the woods is dazzlingly beautiful at this time of the year and relatively virus-free, we have a First Minister who inspires confidence and treats the electorate like grown-ups.

[Kilkis]

A quote from the article, my emphasis in red:

"Athens is currently discussing agreements with Russia, Germany, Austria, Cyprus, Denmark, Norway, the Czech Republic and Australia. Except for Germany, which we really want, of course, all the others have a few cases. They are safe countries, " the report said.

Are they stark raving mad? Russia now has the second highest number of cases in the world after the USA. Also it is close to peak daily increase in number of cases recording ten times the number of cases per day that Germany reports. It is even worse than the UK so I don't know how it classes as safe. Even Germany is still up at around 1,000 cases per day, which is worrying. The other countries are all under 100 new cases per day and several are around the same level as Greece so tourist exchange between them would be reasonable provided it cannot act as a conduit to enter from other countries.

I think the rules must only apply to fenced off private beaches, Bob, not just ones with sunbeds. It talks about recording the number of attendees at the entrance. I personally don't know of any beaches with an entrance. You can wander on and off them at any point.

I don't disagree with your sentiments, Clio, but Nicola has possibly done even worse than England and Wales when it comes to care home deaths? If the UK was a company and the government was the board of directors then I think care home deaths would present a compelling case for corporate manslaughter charges. Everybody still seems to be obsessed with arguing about what happened in the past, e.g. what was the policy did they get PPE and testing etc. People are dying of COVID-19 today in care homes. The disease has past the peak. The NHS was not overwhelmed and is currently running at around 20 % occupancy of intensive care beds. Why are care home residents who develop severe COVID-19 symptoms not being admitted to hospital where they might survive given suitable treatment?

Warwick

PS After posting the above I found this article on ekathimerini that talks about 515 privately or municipally run beach clubs being able to open to the public as of Saturday. I think these are closed beach areas.

[bobscott]

PS After posting the above I found this article on ekathimerini that talks about 515 privately or municipally run beach clubs being able to open to the public as of Saturday. I think these are closed beach areas.

Thanks Warwick. It remains to be seen if/when/how locals here respond! Bob.

[Yin&Yang]

Yesterday in Kalyves we saw one or two people who we thought were holiday makers and were told today that advance holiday staff are arriving on the island which could explain what we saw. I know it’s my bug bear but whilst in my local small greengrocers the newcomers were neither observing social distancing nor wearing gloves or mask

[DJ]

Yin&Yang - I hope you told them !

[Kilkis]

I'm not sure what you can tell them DJ?

In mini-markets and small supermarkets, observing social distancing of 1.5 m at all times is virtually impossible because the aisles are too narrow. It is the responsibility of the owner of the shop to calculate his floor area and only allow the safe number of people into the shop at any time in accordance with the government chart. That means having somebody guarding the door at all times and counting customers in and out. How many shops have you seen doing that? Lidl did for a while but the last time I went the guard had wandered off somewhere. I've not experienced it anywhere else.

Wearing of masks in shops is a recommendation not a rule. They are only effective if everybody wears them but there is no rule to force everybody to do so. They are only compulsory for the general public on public transport, in lifts and in medical establishments.

Warwick

[Kookla]

@ yin & yang yes, I thought that shop keepers were supposed to wear face masks and the customers were non- mandatory. Maybe I have interpreted this incorrectly. I have noticed only one shop, that I frequent in Kalyves, that hasn’t worn a face mask, but he does wear gloves...? I have noticed too a lot of various businesses installing Perspex screens.

[Kilkis]

...I thought that shop keepers were supposed to wear face masks and the customers were non- mandatory...

Wearing of masks is only mandatory for staff in food shops who are handling non-packaged goods. For example, a person working on a meat counter who is cutting up meat and then wrapping it would be required to wear a face mask. A person on the checkout who is just passing packaged food past the bar code reader and taking the payment would not need to, although many are. Wearing of a face mask in other shops is not compulsory but is recommended for both staff and customers.

In my local supermarket virtually all staff wear masks at all times. In my local fresh fish shop masks are not being worn at all, although the till for all coins is now a bowl filled with methylated spirits. My local supermarket has put plexiglass screens at the side of the till but not at the end. Obviously if they put them at the end it would not be possible to pick up your goods after they had been scanned. Typically most people use a basket rather than a trolley so they put the basket on one end of the counter, walk straight past the plexiglass screen to the end of the counter and stand there waiting to pick up their shopping. Even in larger supermarkets, where trolleys are used more, I am not sure how much time customers spend stood alongside the till so I am not sure how much good the plexiglass screens are doing?

Warwick

[Keltz]

Further, it looks like covid19 cannot be transmitted through food http://www.chaniapost.eu/2020/05/14/cor ... hief-says/

or food packaging which to me contradicts the current recommendations to wipe down surfaces and wear gloves.

[YoMo2]

....Russia now has the second highest number of cases in the world after the USA.....

Why do people keep quoting this? According to Worldometer, Spain has the second highest number of cases. Russia is third. What is your source for this, Warwick? Is there a better source I have missed?

Andrew

[Kookla]

Kilkis, I was referring to Yin &Yang “small greengrocers” shop. He handles loose food and it is a tiny shop. He has a sign saying ‘no more than two people at a time’ which is generally adhered to. I usually wait outside to be given a nod to enter. He takes the threat very seriously as I have spoken to him about the difficulties of implementing numbers in such a small area. As it is so small a in shop sqm I would have thought it prudent for customers to wear masks as well.

I have also seen mask wearers, pull down the mask to draw on a ciggie and then replace to exhale? Not sure what to make of that.

[Kilkis]

Is there a better source I have missed?

Andrew

I am not sure who has the most accurate data. I think Worldometer is useful because it provides additional information, such as per million population data. I was quoting John Hopkins University in my previous post. Today the JHU and Worldometer data for Russiia are identical but Worldometer shows a higher number of cases for Spain than JHU. The number of deaths given on the two sites is the same for Russia and Spain. The differences in cumulative totals are not that important. The important figure is that Russia is reporting around 10,000 new cases per day, i.e. the virus is spreading significantly in the population. It is the current rate of spread that should be the deciding factor whether to admit travellers. Cumulative totals reflect history. New cases tell you what is happening now.

If there were more people in the shop than the shop keeper allows then the shop keeper should tell them to wait outside, Kookla. As I posted, if shop staff are handling loose food then it is mandatory for them to wear a mask but not for other shop staff.

I think the Crete Post article is only partially correct. The virus can live on hard surfaces for quite a long time, e.g. up to 72 hours, and that would include plastic packaging. Packaged food could have been handled by a member of shop staff literally minutes before you pick it up, e.g. stocking shelves. That member of staff could have asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic COVID-19, be shedding virus and not wearing a mask. Therefore, the packaging could have minute droplets containing live virus on it when you get home. All that is possible without anybody breaking the current rules. Hence the advice to wipe down packaging with disinfectant when you get home. The risk is lower for paper and cardboard packaging, since the virus lives for a much shorter times on these surfaces.

Warwick