Alarming rise in cases on Crete.

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Kilkis
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Re: Alarming rise in cases on Crete.

Postby Kilkis » Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:54 am

This Keep Talking Greece article is worth reading. Some quotes from it:

    Infections in the month of August reached 5,207, that is over half of a total of 9,531 cases since the beginning of the outbreak in late February.

That means that the average rate of infection was five times higher in August than the average rate for the previous 5 months.

    It is worth noting that the majority of the COVID-19 related hospitalizations are young starting at 16 years of age...But because the age of the infected has decreased, there are not many in the ICUs, the newspaper notes adding that only 3 Covid-patients are the hospital’s ICUs, In the normal wards, the Covid-patients are aged 16-25.

It is definitely spreading far more amongst the young than other age groups. That is why the death rate is not rising as fast as it did in the early stages. Nothing to do with the virus losing its virulence as is sometimes reported in the media.

    Reasons for the infections increase in August are reportedly the domestic and foreign tourism, the increased mobility within the country due to summer vacations, the crowding of mostly young generations in private and public spaces as well as a relaxation in the observance of personal protection measures such as face masks and social distancing.

Exactly what many on here have been saying since restrictions were eased.

Warwick

Tim
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Re: Alarming rise in cases on Crete.

Postby Tim » Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:29 pm

... and from yesterday's KTG ...

https://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2020/ ... august-28/

this line stood out for me:

Concern in Attica with over 100 new cases for third consecutive day. Also cause of concern are the number of cases in Cyclades, Pella, Kozani and Crete.

Tim

bobscott
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Re: Alarming rise in cases on Crete.

Postby bobscott » Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:15 pm

On (I think) 23 August, the municipality of Chania put out the following rules, which came into force for a week starting Monday 24th:

- Suspension of any kind of event, such as parties, trade fairs, processions, public markets, etc.

- Prohibition of any kind of gathering of citizens over 9 people for any reason, both in public and in private.

- In the dining areas the maximum number of people allowed at each table is up to 4, unless they are first degree relatives where up to 6 people are allowed.

- Mandatory use of mask both outdoors and indoors.

- The ban on the operation of all cafes, bars, tavernas etc from 12 midnight to 07.00 the next day still applies."

Gradually we have seen locals and visitors obeying the outdoor wearing of masks and have been told that tourists coming into the airport have been contacted by text, (on their mobiles as shown in the PLF that they have to hand in on arrival ) drawing attention at least to the wearing of masks outdoors.

With the notable exception of St. Thomas' Anglican church who cancelled today's service, the ruling about prohibition of gatherings of more than 9 people, FOR ANY REASON seems to have been ignored by other churches in the Chania prefecture.

Two days ago, on 28th August, we got the following:

"At a press briefing this afternoon,the Undersecretary of Civil Protection, Nikos Hardalias, announced that the restrictive measures in the Regional Unit of Chania will stay in place for two more weeks.. What they include: (and then follows the list as shown above).

Food for thought. Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

johnincrete
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Re: Alarming rise in cases on Crete.

Postby johnincrete » Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:26 am

As an elderly overweight person with long-standing type 2 diabetes with a pace-maker, I am told that I am in the most vulnerable group. What really bothers me is the lack of reliable information. The traditional sources of the BBC, the broadsheet press and my local GP all offer conflicting advice. Add to this is the unfortunate tendency of a few people on forums like this but also on the so-called social media, to take something they read somewhere, allow it to develop in their minds, fuelled by their own prejudices, and then spout it out as though it was a fact.

As a Bible-reading Christian, I am ashamed of church authorities allowing meetings to go on as if they are divinely protected. Yes, we believe in divine protection but we must see that is conditional on complying with God's Word as written in the Bible. Disobeying state laws and recommendations is going against what the Bible says and so these churchmen are leading their flock into danger, without divine protection. If you are not a Bible-believer, please do not comment on this.

So, I try to limit my exposure to unseen, undefined sources by staying at home as much as possible - which goes against the advice to exercise more. No more meeting for a chat at a coffee shop. No more rare treats of a meal at my local taverna. Church meetings on Zoom and in house-groups limited to 9 people - but what do I do when we have visitors from many different countries, how reliable is pre-flight testing? Despite the discomfort, I wear a mask when I go for the once-weekly shop. I am expecting a parcel from the UK: what precautions should I take? An advert on TV says use bleach on all all surfaces to kill ALL viruses: no evidence is given, just a bare statement: is it sponsored by companies that produce bleach?

In my confusion, I sympathize with parents who don't want to expose their children at school and also all those who are fearful of going to the hospital for treatment or for visiting: what does someone do if they are newly diagnosed with a bad illness?. My hair is in need of the barber; my feet need the chiropodist; I need to get advice on a current medical matter; I need new spectacles: is it safe to visit these professionals? They might take every care but what about the other clients/patients?

My daughter is going to the expense of changing the desks at school to single-occupancy and is employing an extra teacher to allow for smaller class sizes, down from 9 to 6. She has also bought a good supply of gloves, masks, and cleanser for the teachers and for students who forget. Before the virus, students waited until the previous class had finished and then went in, and the lesson started immediately, but now maybe they must wait while the teacher disinfects herself and the room. But she cannot test each pupil and the evidence of young people passing on the virus is too vague. Am I safe to resume working in the office, having little contact with teachers and students?

Please everyone: don't pass on rumour and bias as if fact.

Kilkis
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Re: Alarming rise in cases on Crete.

Postby Kilkis » Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:46 am

There are several problems getting clear information, John:

    1 Wearing masks works/doesn't work? This shows a variety of surgeons and surgical teams wearing protective equipment. The vast majority are wearing a simple surgical mask. Why? Suppose the team at top left is about to perform a knee replacement operation. It is needed because the cartilage has worn away and bone is rubbing on bone. Do they think they are going to catch some sort of knee replacement disease from the patient? Are they protecting themselves? No. They know that they are constantly breathing out a whole range of pathogens that could infect the open wound and harm the patient. If wearing a mask doesn't protect other people from pathogens that they are breathing out why do surgeons still do it? If you were the patient and the surgeon told you, "We don't like wearing masks so we aren't going to bother" how confident would you feel about letting them operate on you? In the first 20 seconds of this video are pictures of what doctors and nurses wear to protect themselves from patients who have COVID-19. Does it look the same as the first picture? Conclusion: if everybody with COVID-19 wears a simple surgical mask or equivalent it will help to protect others from infection. If you are mingling with people who have COVId-19 and who are not wearing masks and you want to protect yourself then a simple surgical mask is not going to do the job. We don't know who has COVID-19. Solution: everybody wears a mask wherever they might come into contact with other people.
    2 It is all a game of probabilities. The rate that the virus spreads is a combination of about half a dozen probabilities. If you stay at home all the time and have no contact with any other person or with any object that another person has touched in the recent past then you are virtually 100 % safe because you have reduced some of those probabilities to zero. If, however, you are forced to have some contact with other people, as most of us are, will wearing a mask or washing your hands or staying 2 m apart guarantee you safety? No. What doing those things achieves is reducing various bits of the probability calculation and hence reducing the rate of spread. Reduce the rate of spread below 1, preferably significantly below 1, and the virus dies out and we all become safer. The more measures we take, the more effective the measures are and the more people who obey the measures the quicker the virus dies out.
    3 The virus consists of a single strand of RNA in a lipid shell, i.e. it is encased in fat. It is the shell that allows it to attach to human cells and for the RNA to enter the cell. Any detergent that dissolves fat destroys the lipid shell and hence kills the virus. Alcohol also dissolves fat so also kills the virus. Hand soap and water will do this as will spray on kitchen detergents and washing up liquid. If you want to use a spray on detergent that has bleach in it then it cannot do any harm. Personally I wouldn't rely on bleach alone.
    4 The safety of taking exercise is pretty obvious. If you walk round the centre of Chania mixing with loads of people then you are at much higher risk than if you walk down a country lane where you hardly ever meet anybody. If you do pass somebody stay as far away from them as practical and pass them as quickly as you can. Contact is not only a matter of distance but time spent. Try to avoid touching anything that somebody else might have touched and wash your hands thoroughly as soon as you get home. Perhaps carry a small bottle of alcohol based hand gel with you and use that before you open your gate/door.

Personally I know a few people who are taking the same sort of precautions that I take so I am happy to meet with them but I avoid contact with everybody else. Not 100 % safe. Life is a risk but still better than the alternative.

Warwick

johnincrete
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Re: Alarming rise in cases on Crete.

Postby johnincrete » Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:52 pm

Thanks Warwick. I think that my personal logic has got it about right most of the time.

Kilkis
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Re: Alarming rise in cases on Crete.

Postby Kilkis » Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:09 pm

That's about all anybody can do, John.

Warwick

Guy M
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Re: Alarming rise in cases on Crete.

Postby Guy M » Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:32 pm

This is the end of the holiday season in Crete. Yet it is quite likely these people gave the virus to each other having brought it with them from the U.K. and the real fault is with the British authorities for not enforcing proper track and trave procedures. Expect both U.K. and Greece to introduce quarantine measures.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... ovid-cases

Kamisiana
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Re: Alarming rise in cases on Crete.

Postby Kamisiana » Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:37 am

Guy M wrote:This is the end of the holiday season in Crete. Yet it is quite likely these people gave the virus to each other having brought it with them from the U.K. and the real fault is with the British authorities for not enforcing proper track and trave procedures. Expect both U.K. and Greece to introduce quarantine measures.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... ovid-cases


Are you for real with your " I'm all right jack attitude" I got my family holiday to Crete in, hoping I did not take the Chinese virus with me or a family member now your are blaming the British authorities, to coin your parotted phrase the Greek authorities are now creating one plague island after another plague island.
Did you know that people from many infected countries from all over the world travel to Greece not just from the UK, there you have learnt something now, have a look at last years corruption figures for Greece surprise surprise the police and civil servants are at the top of the list.
https://www.ekathimerini.com/256469/art ... ion-report
Lets hope that Crete the latest "to us your phrase" plague Island gets over it so you can get next years holidays booked.
Maybe this forum should be renamed LLLIC Liberal lefties Living In Crete.
Last edited by Kamisiana on Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

evansmr1
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Re: Alarming rise in cases on Crete.

Postby evansmr1 » Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:06 am

Kamisiana wrote
Lets hope that Crete the latest "to us your phrase" plague Island gets over it so you can get next years holidays booked.
Maybe this forum should be renamed LLLIC Liberal lefties Living In Crete.


What on earth are you on about?. That was extremely rude. I hope that you will issue an apology.

Guy M is incorrect, many of the infections on Crete, and there are not that many compared with the Mainland and other countries, came from the Mainland. Once entry to Crete was open the infection started before the arrival of British Tourists. Yes no doubt some British did bring the Virus with them as did other nationals. A man from Spain arrived in Lasithi, but was very quick to visit the Hospital as he suspected that he had the Virus, Thankfully he did not infect anyone else. Lasithi has the lowest infection rate of the Island.
Your comments regarding corruption, yes, unfortunately that is correct, but thankfully decreasing. But is there not corruption in Britain?. Off course there is. There will always be greedy people in Office.

I await your reply that I am certain will contain an apology to this excellent Forum.
Mike
=============
Sic parvis magnaike

Philb
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Re: Alarming rise in cases on Crete.

Postby Philb » Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:08 am

Kamisiana wrote:
Guy M wrote:This is the end of the holiday season in Crete. Yet it is quite likely these people gave the virus to each other having brought it with them from the U.K. and the real fault is with the British authorities for not enforcing proper track and trave procedures. Expect both U.K. and Greece to introduce quarantine measures.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... ovid-cases


Maybe this forum should be renamed LLLIC Liberal lefties Living In Crete.


Maybe this is the wrong forum for you then. On two counts.

Kamisiana
Posts: 452
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:06 pm

Re: Alarming rise in cases on Crete.

Postby Kamisiana » Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:14 am

Philb wrote:
Kamisiana wrote:
Guy M wrote:This is the end of the holiday season in Crete. Yet it is quite likely these people gave the virus to each other having brought it with them from the U.K. and the real fault is with the British authorities for not enforcing proper track and trave procedures. Expect both U.K. and Greece to introduce quarantine measures.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... ovid-cases


Maybe this forum should be renamed LLLIC Liberal lefties Living In Crete.


Maybe this is the wrong forum for you then. On two counts.


What happened is your ignore button not working today :wink:

Kamisiana
Posts: 452
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:06 pm

Re: Alarming rise in cases on Crete.

Postby Kamisiana » Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:28 am

Sorry evansmr1 I apologize to you not all on here are LLLIC but most, as for plague island
I am only repeating Guy m's original catchphrase that many copied, sorry once again to you evansmr1

TweetTweet
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Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:35 am

Re: Alarming rise in cases on Crete.

Postby TweetTweet » Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:59 am

evansmr1, now you have your apology from Kamisiana, perhaps you will do the right things and apologise to chrissyg.

She received this comment from ros21m:

Chrissyg, please get your arse from out of wherever it is, what a condescending bitch you are!

to which you replied: chrissyg, I have to agree with the comments made against you for your ridiculous comments. Try engaging your brain before you make such dangerous comments.

Kilkis
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Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Alarming rise in cases on Crete.

Postby Kilkis » Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:17 am

I think you need to apologise to Guy as well, Kamisiana. I was the first person to refer to the UK in this thread, not Guy. I posted the comment on 29 April when the infection rate in Greece had gone well past the peak, had got under 20 new cases per day and was still falling. At that time the UK was recording around 4,000 cases per day and the rate was barely falling at all. In fact after my post it rose again up to around 4,500. In addition the UK was experiencing a death rate of around 700 per day while in Greece it was around 3 per day. Since the thread was about encouraging UK tourists to come to Greece I believe my comment was appropriate at that time and I make no apology for using it.

At this point in time things have changed. The UK did eventually get its infection rate down and its death rate down. Since both countries started to release lockdown Greece has experienced a surge in infections rising to over double what it was at the first peak while the UK has only seen a slow rise. Allowing for population size the spread of the virus is now about the same in the UK and Greece and both are dominated by hotspots. I would not use the term plague island today to describe the UK as it would not be appropriate. In fact I only used the term that once so it hardly classifies as a "catch phrase". I think the person who has used it most is you, although a few others quoted it?

Warwick


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