WHAT IS THE FUTURE FOR CRETE POST CONVID-19

For discussion, news, comments, questions and information about Crete & Greece.
Maud
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Location: S.W. England/ S.W. Crete.

Re: WHAT IS THE FUTURE FOR CRETE POST CONVID-19

Postby Maud » Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:57 pm

A ‘pipe dream’ evansmr. - No large manufacturing base, no major financial services industry, few natural resources, and even with a government that isn’t corrupt.......a crippling debt.

As much as I wish things were otherwise, I cannot ever see Greece becoming self sufficient.

Yorgo
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Re: WHAT IS THE FUTURE FOR CRETE POST CONVID-19

Postby Yorgo » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:43 am

Lock and Load - Turkey for Christmas. LOL LOL

TweetTweet
Posts: 367
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:35 am

Re: WHAT IS THE FUTURE FOR CRETE POST CONVID-19

Postby TweetTweet » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:44 am

chrissyg wrote:Hear, hear!
Totally agree ( but i still have to find marmite-lol)

I agree with johnincrete as well.
You can get marmite at A/B in Rethymnon and also at Pavlakis in Plantanias. If out of stock, it usually returns after a couple of weeks or so.

(If anyone else likes baked beans, I highly recommend the Greek Canning Company rather than the Heinz product).

evansmr1
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Location: Pirgos, Kalo Horio,

Re: WHAT IS THE FUTURE FOR CRETE POST CONVID-19

Postby evansmr1 » Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:14 pm

...Greece could become self sufficient


I was referring to the Gas and Oil reserves that have been found close to Crete and I believe also some sites close to the mainland. Because the Greek Government dillied and dallied over the discovery some 10 years ago, Red Tape being the main reason for the delay. All within the UN recognised 200 mile range of Greece and the Islands.

I am of the opinion that an auction had taken place for Companies to commence drilling and that successful bidders offered the contract.
There was also talk of building an Oil reserve on the South Coast of Crete.

Now those nasty Turks have send their exploratory research ships to sniff around guarded by the Turkish Navy.

A wasted opportunity
Mike
=============
Sic parvis magnaike

Kilkis
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Re: WHAT IS THE FUTURE FOR CRETE POST CONVID-19

Postby Kilkis » Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:53 pm

evansmr1 wrote:...Now those nasty Turks have send their exploratory research ships to sniff around guarded by the Turkish Navy...


Because Turkey is not a signatory to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, and does not, therefore, feel bound by it and does not recognise Greece's right to a 200 mile exclusive economic zone. Turkey does not recognise the boundaries of the continental shelf surrounding Greece. Turkey does not recognise the treaties that it signed at the end of the first world war ceding territory to Greece. Turkey does not operate under rule of international law. Turkey wants its empire back and it will scream and scream and scream until it is sick if it doesn't get it. And it can.

Warwick

Tim
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Re: WHAT IS THE FUTURE FOR CRETE POST CONVID-19

Postby Tim » Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:18 pm

Kilkis wrote:
evansmr1 wrote:...Now those nasty Turks have send their exploratory research ships to sniff around guarded by the Turkish Navy...
Turkey wants its empire back and it will scream and scream and scream until it is sick if it doesn't get it. And it can. Warwick


It can scream? Or it can 'get it'? Erdogan strikes me as a jumped-up tinpot dictator who struts around puffing his chest out, making largely empty threats and upsetting as many countries as he can, in an attempt to portray Turkey as a major player on the world stage. Which it is not.

Tim

johnincrete
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Re: WHAT IS THE FUTURE FOR CRETE POST CONVID-19

Postby johnincrete » Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:42 am

So, you are a realist, Warwick? Does a realist not accept that things can change? Greece has debts - but so too have most countries. It was not always so and some people like me are trying our best to see a brighter tomorrow. Why should not good prevail against the bad if more of us ignore the past - except by recognizing errors that must not be repeated - and doing our little bit. The devastating forest fires that we have come to accept started from a small spark or flame. I believe I am a realist but also an optimist.

Kilkis
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Re: WHAT IS THE FUTURE FOR CRETE POST CONVID-19

Postby Kilkis » Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:22 pm

Being a realist does not stop me from thinking things can change but it does inhibit my belief that things will change when it comes to Greece.

I have some personal knowledge of exactly how deeply corrupt the Greek state is and I see no reason to think that is going to change or any evidence that it is doing so. Corruption is estimated to cost Greece around 10 % of GDP. This level of corruption stifles innovation and entrepreneurship. The Greek government does not want Greek companies to be successful because they will always get bigger bribes from foreign companies if they buy from them.

To say that "it was not always so" somewhat ignores reality. Greece has a history of defaulting on debt. The Greek city states defaulted on debt as early as the 4th century BC. Since Greece, or at least part of it, became independent it has defaulted on its sovereign debt six times in 1826, 1843, 1860, 1894, 1932 and 2015. It has spent almost half the period from independence to now in default. Sovereign debt is expected to reach 200% of GDP because of COVID-19. It is only because interest rates are being manipulated down to zero by central banks that it can afford this level of debt. If interest rates returned to normal market levels it could not afford to even service the debt let alone repay it.

As a member of the Eurozone Greece cannot do what most states do and get out of debt by printing money. The ECB is busy printing money but the amount Greece receives is not determined by Greece's needs but by Germany's ideas on what the ECB should do.

What do you see that gives you hope?

Warwick

PS In my statement above I am not supporting the idea of printing money, simply stating that is what happens.

johnincrete
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Re: WHAT IS THE FUTURE FOR CRETE POST CONVID-19

Postby johnincrete » Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:46 pm

You ask
What do you see that gives you hope?
. I see ordinary people who despite corruption keep trying

Kilkis
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Re: WHAT IS THE FUTURE FOR CRETE POST CONVID-19

Postby Kilkis » Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:14 pm

johnincrete wrote:.. I see ordinary people who despite corruption keep trying


I've seen the same thing many times in the 23 years I have lived here, John, in many different situations from independent traders to owners of medium size companies and in ever single case the system has ground them down. That is why I don't share your optimism.

Warwick

Yorgo
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Re: WHAT IS THE FUTURE FOR CRETE POST CONVID-19

Postby Yorgo » Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:16 pm

Why should it be any different to pre COVID 19 ? Crete is not comparable to mainland Greece let alone the rest of the world. The Cretan people have the gift of survival while keeping traditions and culture. Ireland has sold out to mass immigration and EU blackmail. Give it 3 more years and you will never enter a Dublin pub and hear the old songs from the old days. In fact you will probably be unable to buy alcohol at the rate things are going, due to a certain religion, one cant even mention, without all the shocked and hurt people shouting back via the keyboard.
There must be a reason why big companies do not invest. My guess is the barriers they confront which seem totally unnecessary. Crete seems akin to Britain in the 1970s. You hear of story's of changing a car number plate or selling/transferring a car taking all day with absolutely no need for it, In UK I did this in 10 minutes on the laptop.
Hitler wanted Crete for its geographical position. It was this mistake which contributed to him losing the war. That said, why is Crete not a central hub for shipping and distribution, a sort of Amazon with ships. I dont know why what seem obvious to me does not kick in and change Crete to a prosperous island beyond Olives et al.
If Greece is the main buffer against Turkish spread then the EU and whomever should pay up and stop bleeding Greece dry. Erdogan has shifted completely over to an Islamic state and is a real threat. The EU told him to get stuffed and so he shifted. Greece deserves some respect instead of being used as if some - duelling banjos Hillbilly outback - played like a Fiddle by the EU and others.

Kilkis
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Re: WHAT IS THE FUTURE FOR CRETE POST CONVID-19

Postby Kilkis » Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:12 pm

Yorgo wrote:...That said, why is Crete not a central hub for shipping and distribution, a sort of Amazon with ships. I dont know why what seem obvious to me does not kick in and change Crete to a prosperous island beyond Olives et al...


So you are a far east manufacturer, let's say in China. You load a container ship with millions of your products and send it on its way. It docks in Crete. What do you now do with those products? Are the people of Crete going to buy them all? Let's say they are car components. Are they going to be delivered to Crete's car industry? Virtually all manufacturing is done in the far east. They are moved by container ship because it is a very cheap method but very slow. You enter the med via the Suez canal. When you reach Crete another 10 hours sail and you are in Piraeus. All the containers can be offloaded directly onto trains that can travel quickly to every destination in Europe. That is why COSCO Shipping of Hong Kong is a majority shareholder in Piraeus Port Authority and why Crete is pretty useless as a commercial shipping hub. The transfer of goods between ships is pretty low and that is all Crete would be good for. Perhaps Boris could help Greece to build a bridge to the mainland and then it might work.

Warwick

Maud
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Re: WHAT IS THE FUTURE FOR CRETE POST CONVID-19

Postby Maud » Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:48 pm

Would you suggest a ‘London Garden Bridge’ or a bridge like the one Boris now wants to build between the U.K. mainland and Ireland Warwick? We need a sense of humour on here!

There is a difference between optimism and reality Yorgo. I think Boris Johnson, amongst others, needs to learn that. - His bridges are a good example!

Yorgo
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Re: WHAT IS THE FUTURE FOR CRETE POST CONVID-19

Postby Yorgo » Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:55 pm

Well, thats destroyed my attempt at something different. Fair criticism. That said, what are your suggestions for taking Crete away from the dependency on tourism and Olives et al.
The obvious factor is to make Crete attractive for inward investment. It seems to me -roomer has it - the bureaucratic mesh is THE stumbling block. However, is it simply that British people think they know better and the reality is the Cretan people like things as they are.

Yorgo
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Re: WHAT IS THE FUTURE FOR CRETE POST CONVID-19

Postby Yorgo » Thu Oct 08, 2020 4:03 pm

FROM - MARITIME ECONOMICS AND LOGISTICS MAGAZINE -
Mega-ships and mega-ports are the two faces of the same coin: the one ‘feeds’ and reinforces the other, and the one cannot exist without the other. I prepared this infographic in an effort to explain to a wider audience, in as simple a manner as possible, the ‘concept of hub-and-spoking’ (HS), in other words the intrinsic relationship between mega-ships and mega-ports.

The HS idea is quite enticing as a start: Simply put, “it is cheaper to ‘shuttle’ between hubs with a bigger ship and then distribute, rather than call directly at smaller ports, with smaller ships, serving a smaller demand”. A mega-ship can realize significant economies of scale as long as a) it sails full; b) spends most of her time at sea. To achieve both objectives, she must limit her ports of call to a minimum number of hubs, such as ports 1, 2, and 3 (calling also, however, at some additional ports such as 4 and 5). Port 2, let us say Singapore, is a ‘consolidator’: It attracts cargo, destined for Europe (or North America), from places as far away as Australia, Indonesia, Philippines, India, etc., and it has it ready, at its modern terminals, waiting to be expediently picked up by the mega-ship as soon as the latter arrives. Remember: such a ship cannot wait much and if it has to, before too long she may be looking for another, more efficient hub.


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