COVID-19 Vaccination

[TweetTweet]

https://science.news/2020-05-25-mrna-va ... virus.html

"Injecting the body with mRNA strands — which are essentially protein synthesis instructions — could theoretically unleash catastrophic unintended consequences in the body, which could include causing destructive self-reinforcing feedback loops that either diminish necessary protein synthesis or cause runaway excessive protein synthesis. These side effects can potentially lead to at least five negative outcomes:

1) Sudden onset of autoimmune disorders that cause the body’s immune system to attack its own cells. (See more details below.)

2) Heightened inflammation in the body, resulting in a hyper-inflammatory response in some people, leading to secondary effects such as neurological damage, organ failure or cancer. This is also sometimes called an “enhanced” inflammatory response.

3) A heightened risk of blood clotting in response to mRNA strands circulating in the blood outside the body’s cells. This can lead to potentially fatal episodes of stroke or serious cardiovascular events.

4) Immune response interference due to the presence of unintended RNA fragments being translated into unintended proteins, leading to a vast array of negative possible outcomes including molecular deficiencies that can result in various diseases and syndromes including hormonal / endocrine disorders, infertility, cardiovascular disease, neurological disorders and many more."

[Kilkis]

Yet more of Mike Adams' conspiracy junk. Lots of things are theoretically possible but they don't actually happen. Interestingly the article linked by TweetTweet references a policy briefing by Cambridge University. If you intend to read the article linked by TweetTweet I would suggest that you read the Cambridge briefing first and then compare and contrast their statements to the hysteria in the article.

Please provide links to studies on the COVID mRNA vaccines where these "theoretical" effects have been observed. So far tens of thousands of people have been injected with the COVID mRNA vaccine and not one has suffered the type of theoretical reaction described. Not one. Also the mRNA vaccine technique has been under study for some years now, which is why the COVID vaccines could be developed so quickly. Those studies also involved trials where people were injected with mRNA compounds. Can you provide links to any such study where these types of adverse reactions were observed? If you inject billions of people with anything a few will suffer some sort of adverse reaction that weren't observed in trials of tens of thousands. Some of that few might even be severe. A small number of those who suffer a severe reaction might die. If I catch COVID-19, based on real scientific evidence from actual cases, there is a greater than 10 % chance I will die. I know where I place my bet.

Not wanting to take the vaccine yourself is up to you, TweetTweet. Trying to use completely specious pseudo-scientific arguments to convince other people not to take the vaccine is evil.

Warwick

[TweetTweet]

I would suggest that you read the Cambridge briefing first and then compare and contrast their statements to the hysteria in the article.


The only hysteria I perceive is coming from somewhere near Chania.

[Alf]

For most substances a website can be found saying how dangerous it is.

Here is a link to the dangers of dihydrogen monoxide.

https://www.dhmo.org/facts.html

Alf

[Kamisiana]

Possible side effects of Paracetamol, I'm never taking that again
https://www.drugs.com/sfx/paracetamol-side-effects.html

[mouche]

Can anybody name even one single drug that does NOT have warnings for side effects?

[bobscott]

Can anybody name even one single drug that does NOT have warnings for side effects?

This is all getting a bit daft! It would be unreasonable to expect our moderator to start introducing some fact-checking but we are all, surely capable of doing it ourselves? People will always put forward arguments, quote articles etc to support their own view point. That's a given. We just need to sift out the evidence (as is being done in earlier contributions to this thread). Most of us are capable of spotting disinformation sites - just exercise caution before recommending them to others! Bob

[Kilkis]

I'm sorry, Bob, but there is a plethora of evidence to suggest that very many people don't check facts. They read their preferred social media channel and believe whatever it says.

I couldn't care less what conspiracy theories people believe. I know many perfectly reasonable people who believe a whole host of conspiracy theories but they are relatively harmless. Whether somebody believes that man did or didn't go to the moon or Kennedy's death was a CIA plot or Prince Phillip had Diana murdered is irrelevant. People pushing conspiracy theories on vaccines, however, is a serious threat to people's health. People are being convinced not to take vaccines by these conspiracy theorists and that is a threat to everyone's health.

I don't expect the moderator to fact check anything but I will challenge them wherever they appear. There is a perfectly sensible debate to be had but it has to be science led and fact based. For example the Cambridge report makes the following statement:

Unintended effects: the mRNA strand in the vaccine may elicit an unintended immune reaction. To minimise this the mRNA vaccine sequences are designed to mimic those produced by mammalian cells.

A perfectly reasonable scientific fact based statement. Any such reactions would have been detected by the trial - they weren't. Compare and contrast that with the statements made in the report linked by TweetTweet.

A second example. The Australian candidate vaccine has been pulled. It was found that it could result in people given the vaccine producing a false positive test for HIV. It doesn't actually give anybody HIV it just causes them to test positive. Nobody caught HIV - nobody was made ill. They knew, however, that conspiracy theorists would have a field day and convince people that it did give you HIV resulting in many people refusing to take any vaccine. We will never know if the Australian vaccine might have been highly successful. Conspiracy theorists are already having a quite severe negative influence. It must not increase.

Warwick

[mouche]

Can anybody name even one single drug that does NOT have warnings for side effects?

This is all getting a bit daft! It would be unreasonable to expect our moderator to start introducing some fact-checking but we are all, surely capable of doing it ourselves?

It was never my intention to ask the moderator of the forum about this thus don't quite understand why this comment from you?

[TweetTweet]

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defe ... 309b779ac5

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defe ... 038da8ccdd

[Kilkis]

Yet another conspiracy theory anti-vaccine web site spreading misinformation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children% ... th_Defense

Warwick

[evansmr1]

The Internet is a wonderful place to discover information, both false and fact about any subject that you would care to mention and I mean ANY subject.
Now this thread is becoming a nightmare. There are too many deniers around who still deny that there is such a thing as convid-19 and of course there are also many who claim that convid-19 is a very nasty virus that has the powers to kill. Many say that the Virus came from an experimental plunder, others will state that it is a man made biological weapon for use in warfare.
Many state that the current Vaccines are dangerous and have not been tested for the usual required length.

No one can deny that convid-19 has killed many citizens around the world. No one can deny that convid-19 has caused a terrible disruption to lives around the world. No one can deny that convid-19 has caused serious financial problems to every Country and will take years to recover.

We need to stop these unnecessary world wide problems to eradicate this virus such as was done with many other diseases. I am certain that all believers will agree that this is, to date, the nastiest know to mankind in living memory.

Do Scientists create a vaccine or medicine for convid-19 and then take 3 years to test it, how many more citizens will die and what will be the economical effect?
Or do we trust our scientists to carry out an intense 6 month test that may not iron out all the side effects or if it is safe or expecting Mothers? and then allow us to leave a more normal life.

It is your decision where or not to take the offered vaccine or to risk eventually catching the virus and all is nasty side effects.
If you do not want to take it STOP trying to convince others that it is unsafe and a criminal act by the Laboratories and should not be taken.
If you are like me and do not want to chance of catching the virus, you will trust the Scientists and the Laboratories and go for it,

BRING IT ON.

Warwick's replies are the most sensible.

[Kilkis]

The only significant risk that has been taken with any of the current vaccines is financial.

In normal times nobody would significantly finance the development of a vaccine until there was some evidence it would work. This time dozens of candidate vaccines received funding, both commercial and public, with very little evidence at all just some solid ideas.

In normal times nobody would move through the different phases before the previous phases were full evaluated. This time, once safety was established and some evidence that it might succeed, the decision to move to the next phase was taken.

In normal times it would take an inordinate length of time to recruit enough volunteers to participate in trials. Because of the world wide threat of this pandemic and the damage it was obviously causing to both public health and worldwide economies volunteers were recruited at a rate far higher than usual. High enough to run many trials in parallel

In normal times the numbers of active cases and their density in the general population would be so low that it would take a long time for enough people to became infected either in the vaccine group or the placebo group. That means that it normally takes a very long time before the trials have enough cases to evaluate how efficacious the vaccine is. This time the intensity of the spread of the disease is so high cases are produced very quickly and hence the efficaciousness of the vaccine can be evaluated more quickly.

In normal times nobody would start manufacturing a vaccine until it had been through all the trials and obtained approval. Because of the urgency, manufacturing started as soon as the formulation of the vaccine was known and very early trials showed that it had a good chance of succeeding.

In normal times regulators would not start evaluating data until trials were complete and all data presented. This time regulators engaged with the vaccine manufacturers at an early stage and carried out some evaluation in parallel with each stage.

If in the end any vaccine failed because it was shown to be unsafe or not to be efficacious in large scale trials then all that money, time and energy would have been wasted. That was the risk and that is what allowed the process to move quickly. The evaluation of risk to health and efficaciousness has been just as thorough as any other trial. That is scientific reality.

Warwick

[chrissyg]

I am fairly open-minded when it comes to alternative theories and have often casted doubts on news reports and government rules and regulations . There are always some immoral people that make money out of awful situations. But this time whatever the causes, and mistakes, we are living now in such a horrible situation which has infringed on our personal freedoms like no other and i for one want it back to normal asap. The lockdowns havent worked, they help temporarily.The only way is now vaccinaton and it is great news that we have got the vaccines. If you dont get one one when you can i think you are being daft and if you are encouraging others not to even more so.Do you really not want to end this? Absurd!

[Keltz]

An interesting article today on Greek survey of Covid restrictions and vaccine.

https://www.ekathimerini.com/260214/art ... rvey-shows

Basically most people trust their judgement to decide what to do and there is low trust with the government which may at least in part influence the low trust in a vaccine.

Having said that it looks like there is high compliance on using masks which is something I can understand as Greek culture generally encourages people to respect each other. In my mind it is always about trust and perhaps when people are presented with the vaccine to actually take, a much higher percentage will be willing.

I do not personally believe there is such a thing as back to normal as other viruses are possible and the effort needed to combat global warming has shown that even with drastic cuts to travel this year has only slightly dented the drop in emissions needed.