Latest lockdown rules - clarification?

[lDm]

the rules are what the Civil Protection Ministry announces in official bulletins not what was discussed in media reports. I have no idea if the 2 hour limit was introduced for retail shopping or not? I didn't see an official bulletin with it included but then I might have missed it.

I read news that apparently a lot of fines were issued to people who exceeded their 2-hour shopping, going from retail to supermarkets (or tried to have multiple back-to-back 2-hour movement permissions); apparently there was a lot of complaints from those people because (previously) supermaket/essentials was not timed, to ALSO include driving time to/back.
I completely agree with your para 2.

[lDm]

Here is an article given details / differences of zones (yellow eg Chania vs B-red eg Rethymno vs RED eg Ag Nikolaos)
https://news.gtp.gr/2021/01/29/covid-19 ... announced/
(it may not be updated for regions/zonation but lists measures)

What I still find puzzling is that it's not clear if the 2-hour time limit was abolished (I assumed yes, since it's not mentioned)

Same as for visiting other households (Warwick, I also assume it's a no-no, but I cannot find a mention of it since last 2 updates of regulations)

And this article seems to emphasize "only sms" though I would think that printed forms are still OK..

My understanding is that in Ag Nikolaos one is not allowed to go to other municipalities within prefecture, whereas in Rethymno unlimited movement within region is still allowed but for very specific reasons.

[Kilkis]

Note that the link relates to an article on 29 January. There have been further announcements since then so you cannot totally rely on it. It is OK for a general overview but some details might be wrong in specifics areas of the country.

I agree the 2 hour limit is a puzzle. I can find no official announcement including the 2 hour limit. It was mentioned in articles when they were talking about opening up retail. Even then it wasn't clear if it only applied to retail shopping. I have no idea if it applies but personally I am working on the assumption that it does.

The general rules in the linked document include the following statement:

A 24-hour restriction on movement is enforced with exceptions. Outside movement is allowed only for six specific reasons and by sending an SMS to the five-digit mobile phone service 13033.

It might not explicitly mention visiting other people's houses BUT visiting other people's houses is not one of the 6 reasons, except to help somebody in need, so it is forbidden. It always has been since restrictions were imposed again except for the 4 days around Christmas and New Year. Obviously this rule does not apply to MPs, their hangers on and any member of the Mitsotakis clan. They can party all they want.

Throughout the whole pandemic there has been a tendency for the media to only refer to sending an SMS to 13033. As far as I know that is short hand for "...or with a completed form or a handwritten note".

Warwick

[lDm]

so you cannot totally rely on it. It is OK for a general overview

yeah, that's what I meant.. I found their overview for zone differences better than other sources! esp re so-called "b-red" (ie Rethymno)

Even then it wasn't clear if it only applied to retail shopping.

that's where I'm suspicious as there were reports (usually same articles?) that people were fined who went to supermarkets outside that limit.. police thought it applied / applies to all including driving time (!!) and no one was allowed to exceed or request multiple 2-hour slots..

A 24-hour restriction on movement is enforced

I assume they mean constant 24/7 as opposed to for next 24 hours.. =)

It might not explicitly mention visiting other people's houses BUT visiting other people's houses is not one of the 6 reasons, except to help somebody in need, so it is forbidden.

That would be my deductive logic as well; however by the looks of it (out of my window to the outside world) the local logic is that when a house belongs to anyone in the family, it is still home environment! In other words, there are daily picnics or late night bbq's (judging by drunk driving 'back home' in night hours).
What amazes me is that police is not even bothering to patrol once in a while. I see them standing in groups in central town, and that's about it. Why then not have road cameras (adjusted to capture vehicles past curfew hours?)

[Kilkis]

It means you cannot leave your home at all, ever except for one of the 6 reasons specified. There are a couple of exceptions, e.g. going to work but that requires a different permit.

You cannot judge what the law is based on what people are doing. People always break the law. Ask yourself, if you break the law do you have some way you can get away with it without paying any penalty? They possibly do so they don't care. Will Mitsotakis and the 50 people he had dinner with pay fines? Would you have to pay a fine in the same situation? Will Mitsotakis and his entourage pay fines for travelling from a prefecture with the highest infection rate in the country to an island that is (was?) COVID free? Would you if you did that?

Warwick

[solitude1]

Do as i say not as i do.

[Saddler]

Unless Mitsotakis and the Government get a grip the situation is going to become catastrophic. They obviously have no understanding of the massive increase in transmission of the mutated Covid variant. The UK figures alone should surely have given them an idea. Severe restrictions are now a must, not constant speculation about easing off, though I fear it is now out of control on parts of the mainland. The Islands need to be off limits now to anyone before it's too late.

[Jean]

The Islands need to be off limits

The islands have been off-limit since the 7th of November. You are not allowed to travel between prefectures unless you can prove that you are a returning resident (and it needs to be your main residence, i.e. it's where you pay your tax).
There are exceptions but not that many.

[Kilkis]

While Jean's statement is technically correct, unfortunately I think that horse, i.e. protecting the islands, has already bolted.

Rethymnon has just gone into the highest infection category of over 150 cases per 100,000 population in a 14 day period. I also make Lasithi just above 150 but the latest map is still showing it in the 50 to 149.9 category along with Heraklion. Only Chania is still in the under 25 category and is not showing any strong rise at present. My figures taken from published data are:

Chania: 16.25
Heraklion: 45.86
Lasithi: 155.41
Rethymnon: 163.75

Since about 26 January Rethymnon and Lasithi have been climbing almost vertically, Heraklion is climbing but more slowly while Chania is bouncing around in a narrow range below 20. I can't see it being that long before Chania follows the other prefectures on Crete.

Warwick

[Saddler]

That obviously doesn't include Ikaria Jean?

[Jean]

That obviously doesn't include Ikaria Jean?

It doesn't include the ruling classes. But does it ever?

[lDm]

It means you cannot leave your home at all, ever except for one of the 6 reasons specified. There are a couple of exceptions, e.g. going to work but that requires a different permit.

I decided to chat to the local police station about this issue.. they seem to think that if the (vacated and normally unused) property belongs to someone (ie owner asks a cousin to visit), then indoor entry / visitations by those people are sorta OK.
I pointed out that I see a problem in seeing this as one of the essential 6 reasons of movement, or a work-related visit, or a feeding-livestock visit; and so that would still be non-essential movement across km's and use of non-residency place for visitations.
In summary, they seemed doubtful if such a case would qualify for fines, unless there was a real souvlaki-gathering or (drumrolls!) the actual property owner calls the police (rrrright...)

I plan to call the covid hotline prior to supermarket trip to see if they can clarify about movement / time restriction, if I have to visit pharmacy on the way, and exceed the 2 hours or have to go across the whole prefecture.. Just a thought as I remain clueless but need to go sometime soon!

Oh, for those in Rethymno - police said that Rethymno town is under 18h-5AM curfew, whereas the Rethymno region is 21h-5AM movement restriction (or so I understood).

[Kilkis]

The main reason for the restrictions on visiting other households is to stop different family groups mingling together and passing the virus on from one household to another. It is virtually impossible to stop it passing on within a household if one person brings it in. By "family group" I mean people who normally live together in the same household not simply people who have some family relationship but live in different households. If a single family group is visiting a property that is empty then clearly there is no mingling so no problem. I suspect that is what the police were trying to tell you. I don't think visiting the property would result in the fine but if the people doing the visiting were from completely different households then that could result in a fine. Working on a property would be allowed, even if the people doing the work were not from the same household, provided they all had a correct work travel permit.

Warwick

[lDm]

Hi all, small update if it's of any use to anyone else on this forum:

I spoke to civil protection service, and they said that driving to a pharmacy (B1) and larger supermarket (B2) is allowed even when crossing municipalities within the prefecture (ie driving for more than a few km's), and is not limited to time either by shopping/driving time OR by curfew (in other words, one can go for these reasons after 18/21h). The reasoning is that it is considered essential supply that one cannot get at the nearest shop (like one can get fresh bread at closer distance, but not - for example - canned fish, etc).

They also confirmed that there should be no visitations by house owners (or their families) to their 2nd homes ie non-primary residences.. they explicitly told me it's "illegal and police should be called".

So there..

[Kilkis]

You can certainly go out for medical reasons during curfew hours, so that would work for a pharmacy, but as far as I am aware you cannot go to a supermarket during curfew. Supermarkets are supposed to close at 20:00 and all the ones I know do.

Warwick