Latest lockdown rules - clarification?

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Tim
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Re: Latest lockdown rules - clarification?

Postby Tim » Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:03 pm

And yet another ambiguous announcement from the Government:

https://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2021/ ... customers/

“Inter-municipal movement will be allowed from May 3” and “citizens will not have to send an sms to visit restaurants,” Stampoulidis said.

I think the first half of that sentence refers to going to restaurants but, as ever, it's not at all clear.

Tim

Kilkis
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Re: Latest lockdown rules - clarification?

Postby Kilkis » Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:55 pm

The problem is that they make announcements about specific things, e.g. restaurants opening. They then specify some rules about that specific thing with no reference to what other rules apply. They also continuously express it in terms of changes which means that you need to know what it was before, and before that, and before that all the way back into the mists of time. They need a single web site with all the rules defined in simple terms as they are today. For example:

    You are allowed to move between prefectures for purposes A, B and C
    you are allowed to move between municipalities for purpose D, E and F
    for purposes G, H and I you must remain within your municipality.

All you would need to do is look at the web site before you go out and check if it is allowed at the moment. By all means make announcements about what is going to happen in advance so people can plan but to avoid fines you need to know what it is now. They have tried to do it with the COVID Map web site BUT it is never up-to-date and even when it is updated to the latest announcement it frequently says some things differently from what was said in the announcement. Since both are official you never know which is correct.

Warwick

shine on
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Re: Latest lockdown rules - clarification?

Postby shine on » Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:06 pm

Even so, it’ll still be down to the police officer who is questioning you why you are, where you are, and he or she will probably have a different opinion as to what has been currently announced. Tread lightly folks.

evansmr1
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Re: Latest lockdown rules - clarification?

Postby evansmr1 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:09 pm

I do not understand why everyone is so worried. Just keep to the 6 reasons and stay safe.
Do not leave your Prefecture for any reason, unless you are employed. Best to stay safe.
I cannot see any reason during the current wave to leave my Prefecture, or even my Municipality. Best to stay safe.

On 3rd May some Tavernas, cafes etc will open for outside seating only. Many will leave it until 15 May.

The important thing is to stay safe, even if you have had the partial or full vaccination.
Mike
=============
Sic parvis magna

Kilkis
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Re: Latest lockdown rules - clarification?

Postby Kilkis » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:30 pm

I think most of us are trying to obey the rules, Mike, but it getting a bit silly. This is from a Keep Talking Greece article today:

    So far inter-municipality movement is allowed for “personal exercise” on weekends, for hairdressers, retail shopping, health reasons and work. People also change municipality to offer help at home for a person in need.

So on Saturday I could drive from my house to Agios Apostoli, which is 9 km from my house but outside my municipality, to go for a walk along the beach or around the park there and I wouldn't be breaking the rules. If I went in the Lidl or Synka supermarket there, however, to buy food and drink I would be liable to a fine. If I went to the Lidl supermarket at Platanias, which is also 9 km from my house but is inside my municipality, that would be OK. Both are well inside the prefecture of Chania. Both municipalities are classed as "Increased Risk" areas, i.e. red, and have similar infection levels. I could also legally go into the centre of Chania to do retail shopping or get my haircut even though the municipality of Chania is a "Very High Risk" area, i.e. dark red, so a higher infection level than my municipality. As a scientist I am very much in favour of having movement restrictions to slow the spread of the virus, I am not one of the "Open up now" brigade, but I don't see the logic of the way they are being handled now. Also there is not a single Greek person that I have asked who has any idea at all what the movement restrictions are because they have become so muddled. How can people obey them if they don't know what they are?

At the beginning of the pandemic all communications to the public were done by Tsiodras, a specialist in controlling infectious diseases who was put in charge of Greece's pandemic response. Everybody trusted him. His briefings were very clear and people understood what he was saying. The first lockdown was one of the most successful in Europe. For many months now the briefings have been in the hands of half a dozen government ministers. They all have their own agendas often at odds with the other ministers. The briefings are unclear, contradictory and confusing. The lockdown this time has been a complete failure.

Warwick

bobscott
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Re: Latest lockdown rules - clarification?

Postby bobscott » Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:42 am

............. and now they are considering getting rid of the SMS 'permissions' rule. What then, I wonder? Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

lDm
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Re: Latest lockdown rules - clarification?

Postby lDm » Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:21 pm

I was wondering the same as you, dear Sirs.
ie I just read that 'very likely no sms' for tavernas / as of 3rd / and up until 23h.. and also that they laxed down for Easter even more than for Christmans, ie up 12 people 'outside'. This reads to me like: the 'usual' bbq / party operation so long as you're careful not to get caught (but police won't be checking anyway, because they also need to celebrate, right?)
In other words, I don't see how they are going to enforce the 'relaxed' measures because people will get together and numbers / hours will increase beyond their 'limit' imposed 101%. Which then translates to the same thing: spikes in cases, exactly for 15th ie presumed lockdown end..
And I also agree - it's ridiculous about 2 / supermarkets & again no specifications about 'private car' movement rules (how many people except driver, family vs not blood related, etc).

Tim
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Re: Latest lockdown rules - clarification?

Postby Tim » Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:29 pm

I predict the start of the third lockdown will just about coincide with the end of the tourist season. Not that I'm in any way κυνικός of course. :wink:

Tim

Kilkis
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Re: Latest lockdown rules - clarification?

Postby Kilkis » Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:54 pm

I think they are most worried about people leaving dense urban areas, like Athens where the infection level is highest, and taking it to rural areas where infections are lower and there are fewer healthcare facilities. I would expect, therefore, major routes to be more heavily policed, to stop people moving across regional boundaries, rather than patrolling villages and counting numbers at tables. To be fair the increased relaxation to 12 people only applies outside and I would guess that they didn't think many people would dine outside at Christmas.

Warwick

mrsbluenose
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Re: Latest lockdown rules - clarification?

Postby mrsbluenose » Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:27 pm

Kilkis wrote:I think they are most worried about people leaving dense urban areas, like Athens where the infection level is highest, and taking it to rural areas where infections are lower and there are fewer healthcare facilities. I would expect, therefore, major routes to be more heavily policed, to stop people moving across regional boundaries, rather than patrolling villages and counting numbers at tables. To be fair the increased relaxation to 12 people only applies outside and I would guess that they didn't think many people would dine outside at Christmas.

Warwick


Actually that's exactly what we did! Four of us at friends' house.

Tim
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Re: Latest lockdown rules - clarification?

Postby Tim » Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:58 pm

Progress! New announcement:

https://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2021/ ... -april-28/

The Civil Protection announced that the sms to leave home remain until May 15 but inter-municiplality movement is allowed form tomorrow, April 28.


Er... is that not the situation already? And if restaurants and tavernas open on Monday, as has been widely predicted, which sms code do you use. I'm going to put it down as exercise. I'll be lifting my right arm, anyway.

Tim

Kilkis
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Re: Latest lockdown rules - clarification?

Postby Kilkis » Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:25 pm

There is another KTG article that states that:

    SMS <6> will be used also for moving to a restaurant or cafe.

Inter-municipality movement has always been confusing but my understanding is that it became allowed a little time ago for retail shopping, with a confirmed appointment and a time limited permission by SMS from 13032, and for exercise at the weekend with SMS 6 to 13033. For other activities controlled by SMS to 13033, such as supermarket/essential goods shopping (2), visiting a pharmacy (1), exercise during the week (6) etc it was not allowed. As from tomorrow it is also allowed for these activities still with SMS to 13033. Travel outside your prefecture is still not allowed except for the exceptions that have always been in place.

Warwick

PS A friend was talking to the manager of the AB Supermarket near Chrisy Akti this morning and she believed supermarket shopping was not restricted to your municipality at any time but there have been many media reports in ekathimerini and KTG saying that it was.

BST
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Re: Latest lockdown rules - clarification?

Postby BST » Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:04 pm

What's everyone's interpretation of the movement between municipalities? Is it a) Just for the week whenever that officially ends or b) Forever....until next lockdown.
There is confusion and discussion on FB about this. I have read what appears to be direct quotes and it does appear to be for a week but would they seriously introduce a ban again just for a week?

Kilkis
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Re: Latest lockdown rules - clarification?

Postby Kilkis » Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:26 pm

If you read the article I linked in the previous post it is pretty clear that the restrictions on inter-municipality travel are lifted from tomorrow, not just for one week. The statement in the actual briefing reads:

    From tomorrow morning, inter-municipal movements within the Regional Unit are allowed throughout the week.

I believe the term "throughout the week" means "all week" not "just for this week". The reason for including the expression is because before tomorrow inter-municipal travel was allowed for certain reasons but only at weekends.

Warwick

shine on
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Re: Latest lockdown rules - clarification?

Postby shine on » Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:44 pm

Thank God my wine is 14% ABV, and 75cl of it is in my belly.


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