Not strictly Crete, but....

For discussion, news, comments, questions and information about Crete & Greece.
Kathleen
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 8:46 pm
Location: North East UK/ex Rethymnon

Not strictly Crete, but....

Postby Kathleen » Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:11 am

Interesting and thought provoking article in this morning's Daily Mail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -live.html.

Kathleen

lshall05
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Joined: Tue May 08, 2007 12:13 am
Location: Malia

Postby lshall05 » Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:10 pm

Anyone clicking on the link will have to remove the full stop at the end of the link or it won't work.

Interesting article.

The problem we seem to have in Malia is that the seasonal workers come over and take in a stray because they 'look so cute, how can I leave it on the street' but come the end of the season when they are going home, they just leave the cat/dog to fend for themselves on the streets again. They think it's ok because they've survived before but they forget that the cat/dog is now used to living with people and getting food given to them.
Living in Crete!!

Kyrstyn
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Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:56 pm

Postby Kyrstyn » Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:54 pm

lshall05 wrote:The problem we seem to have in Malia is that the seasonal workers come over and take in a stray because they 'look so cute, how can I leave it on the street' but come the end of the season when they are going home, they just leave the cat/dog to fend for themselves on the streets again. They think it's ok because they've survived before but they forget that the cat/dog is now used to living with people and getting food given to them.


That's a good point, and one that's been on my mind lately since I've been feeding three homeless sister kitties on my back patio, but this is a temporary residence for me and I'll be gone at the end of November. Unless the new tenants are cat lovers, then they're probably going to follow the landlord's instructions and spray the cats with the hose whenever they come around. Unfortunately I can't take them with me because I've already got two of my own that I brought with me to Crete from the States.

I'll be away visiting some other islands with a friend mid-October, might be a good time to start weaning them off of regular morning feedings (and affection!):-(

Brian c
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Location: scotland

Postby Brian c » Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:58 am

That article is horrific and i suspect probabley true.
Can any of the folks that live on crete pass comment if such a thing is happening there, at the end of the season.
dont sweat the small things

lshall05
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Joined: Tue May 08, 2007 12:13 am
Location: Malia

Postby lshall05 » Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:14 am

Not been here long enough to comment but given the number of idiots that take in strays (that includes the takeaway places) it wouldn't surprise me if it did happen here.

Saying that the same strays have been around for the last 3 or 4 years...
Living in Crete!!

paulh
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Location: Akrotiri

Postby paulh » Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:41 am

The poisoning of stray cats and dogs has always been part of the Greek way of life to keep rabies down. It is nothing new. Yes it would be better replaced by a neutering program but right now that is not particularly high on the political agenda. Yes it is a good idea not to feed strays and the report was valuable for that point.

What gets me is this reporter talked to 2 people and the whole piece is around their say so. Tries to pull all the emotional strings re calender cats but strangely overlooks the Daily Mail's own use of Fred Basset and all the animals (including Basset hounds) that are used in vivisection in the UK and Europe each year. In terms of numbers talk millions. Now Greece doesn't have a vivisection or testing on animals industry anywhere near comparable with that of England France and Germany so where does animal cruelty really happen?

There is an EU report on the net on animal cruelty across Europe using 2003 figures. It is not pleasant reading but it states what is really happening and gives a more balanced view than this knee jerk type reporting.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=nwhZ ... ection&lr=

Oh and no there is no mass poisoning scheme that I know of on Crete at the end of each season. Animals that have been fed at places which close in winter try go to anywhere with humans (difficult when they have dogs anyway) or live around the rubbish bins. They are reduced to starvation rations, they get every passing disease because they have no resistance to it, they fight each other for meagre scraps and are injured, they are hit by the elements which are rough in winter and then weak and disorientated around bins they are unable to get out of the way of cars and are killed on the roads.

Eleni13
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Location: UK

Postby Eleni13 » Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:03 am

As one of the idiots who take in strays, I would like to defend soft-hearted Brits.
We have been owned part time by a local cat for several years now. We feed him when we are there, we also give treat him for parasites.
He happily survives when we are not around, although he loses a little weight, and greets us very shortly after we return. He is still able to clear up the local rodent population & leaves them on the doorstep as gifts.
He frequently turns up limping badly, an injury caused, we suspect, by an old lady's stick. She doesn't like him around her female cats-understandably, but a hose would be kinder.

Ros21
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Location: Kerasia

Postby Ros21 » Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:56 pm

Like Eleni, I'm also a part timer who's been adopted by several village cats, I know some of them do have homes with neighbours & several othere are semi-homeless, ie food is occassionally put out for them & they shelter in outhouses. I come over at various times of the year, including winter, and the village cats are always in a reasonable state, the're always plumper by the time I go home again though!
In the last 12 months I've lost 3 of my visitors, but they're replaced by kittens. At the end of June this year several cats & dogs were poisoned in the village. One of the dogs was a Cretan friend's 10 week old puppy. This wasn't an attempt at culling strays but we think the poison was put down on someone's land to kill vermin.

Ros.

altohb
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Location: Sitia

Postby altohb » Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:24 pm

Ros21 wrote:At the end of June this year several cats & dogs were poisoned in the village. One of the dogs was a Cretan friend's 10 week old puppy. This wasn't an attempt at culling strays but we think the poison was put down on someone's land to kill vermin.

Ros.


I think this is how it often happens. Not long after we moved here the owner of the neighbouring olive grove warned me not to let our dogs run free in the groves in case someone had put down poison. If you want to let dogs run free, please, please muzzle them so they can't pick up any nasties. Antidote kits are available from vets, too, but you need to use it straight away, so carry it with you!

karpathoskate
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Postby karpathoskate » Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:00 pm

:cry: Unfortunately poisoning is endemic in Greece (and other countries I am led to believe), yes, keep your dogs muzzled and try not to let your pet cats stray too far, and do keep the antidote to hand. And thanks to everyone who tries to look after the homeless animals.

Brian c
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Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:18 pm
Location: scotland

Postby Brian c » Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:03 pm

Its probabley my biggest concern about coming to live there.
I am the easiest going bloke you will ever meet and both myself and my wife make friends easily, and are both very adaptable and capable people.

However i am one of the soft sods that feeds every stray going and have been known to take stray cats and dogs to the vet, advertise(successfully) for homes for them etc etc.
I also believe that we should not take our beliefs, values etc to another country with us and adapt as much as possible to the adopted country,
but the one thing that will get me in trouble is cruelty to animals, i could not stand by and allow it to happen.

brian
Last edited by Brian c on Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
dont sweat the small things

andheath
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Location: Sitia - Stay Away - Go West

Postby andheath » Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:56 pm

OK so I thought about it for two days and tried hard not to respond but I failed.

I am an animal lover therefore my views are biased but I think I am still entitled to my opinion. I am also not anti Crete, Greece, whatever before the usual suspects start the boring, repetitive, if you don't like it don't live here routine.

Some points on the thread:

Paulh said:

The poisoning of stray cats and dogs has always been part of the Greek way of life to keep rabies down.
As far as I am aware there has not been a case of rabbies in Crete for more than nine years. If this is the case the point is not relevant.

He also said:
Yes it would be better replaced by a neutering program but right now that is not particularly high on the political agenda.
At this time we are approaching a General Election in Greece during a period when this country is facing the biggest economic challenge since becoming a democratic nation. Again, as I understand things, tourism is the second biggest money earner for this country. Articles such as this, emotional as they are, do immense damage to this industry. Can you begin to imagine how many Brits have struck the Greek Islands off their list of possible holiday destinations for next year as a result of this article. If this subject is not high on the political agenda right now then maybe it should be. May the tourist penny drop with some politicians.

As an example, if you visit Heraklion airport and take time to notice the stray dogs, look closely and you will see they wear collars with a large tag. This tag explains that these dogs belong to the airport, are fed and cared for by the airport staff and it even gives you a phone number to call should the dog give you any problems. This is an enlightened approach to a problem organised by local people who realise it is important to their economic wellbeing. In fact the taxi driver I spoke to was so proud of this he suggested we come back at feeding time to see how happy all the dogs are.

I have lived in Crete for two years, maybe I go to the wrong places but I have seen immense cruelty to animals. I have also met more Greeks than Brits that do anything about this. The thing that dissapoints me most is when Brits ignore the subject, turn a blind eye or put it down to the culture, etc. Cruelty to animals is not "a Greek thing" it is illegal in this country, poisioning is illegal, etc. etc.

In the Greek press this week and on television is a report of 40 dogs poisioned in Irapetra. This has nothing to do with rats, chickens or dogs eating something they should not have. This is because somebody took the law into their own hands. Have you watched a dog die of poisoning?

This is a fantastic country and a great place to live, if you are thinking of coming here then do so, but do so with your eyes open. Animal welfare is pagan at best but the young people of this country are a new generation and things are changing. Come to Crete, bring your pets and be careful but don't ignore what happens around you. Everyone can make a difference. One life saved is a good thing.

Andy

Thats the positive stuff but if you really want to upset yourself, just try searching "animal cruelty Greece" on youtube
This Cretan Adventure thing is way beyond a joke.

margarita
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Location: Kalyves area

Postby margarita » Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:06 pm

andheath wrote:.... but the young people of this country are a new generation and things are changing.


Yes, things are changing.

We have a Greek friend who is in his mid 60's and is almost paranoid about cats & dogs. He hates cats because, when he was young cats were regarded as vermin, only useful for catching other vermin. He is frightened of dogs because he was badly bitten by one as a child.

However, his two young grandchildren have a dog which they love to bits. It's supposed to be guard dog but is treated as a family pet.

I am sure this scenario is being repeated all over Crete and the rest of Greece, and slowly things will change.

I would have a lot more sympathy with people criticising Greek behaviour to animals if all was sweetness and light in the UK. If there hadn't been a problem there then why the need for the RSPCA?

I would not regard myself as a great 'animal lover' although I would not want to harm any animal, but I think many foreigners allow this one thing to cloud their judgement of a whole nation. There are many stories of horrific animal cruelty in the UK and, I am sure, every other country in the world. Maybe the people here are more open about it.

Regards,

maggie

P.S. Although I addressed the opening sentence to you Andy, please don't take everything I said as aimed at you.

Retired in Crete

Postby Retired in Crete » Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:35 pm

Hi Andy, good to see you back on the board. You should do it more often.

andheath wrote:Paulh said:

The poisoning of stray cats and dogs has always been part of the Greek way of life to keep rabies down.
As far as I am aware there has not been a case of rabbies in Crete for more than nine years. If this is the case the point is not relevant.


In the interests of fairness it could be argued that there has not been a case for more than nine years because of this policy.

andheath wrote:Thats the positive stuff but if you really want to upset yourself, just try searching "animal cruelty Greece" on youtube


I did as you suggest and searched "animal cruelty in Greece". The result of this is 78 videos.

I then changed "in Greece" to "in the UK". This produced a staggering 353 videos. This from a country of so called animal lovers!

I did this, not to detract from your post, but to show that this problem is not confined to Greece. It is universal. Action needs to be taken in the UK as well as in Greece. I also think that it is a little hypocritical of people to boycot Greece when they have a similar problem in their own country.

Your illustration of the dogs at the airport should encourage you and shows that things are changing. Don't give up hope just yet!

John

paulh
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Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:13 pm
Location: Akrotiri

Postby paulh » Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:14 am

Now this is a good discussion. Lets see it continue in the same manner. I have quite a few points to make which add to, rather than argue against, the points already made but it will be posted later today.


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