Being taken for a ride?

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Retired in Crete

Being taken for a ride?

Postby Retired in Crete » Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:03 am

In order to take my Greek motorbike test the school has told me that I first have to get my UK car licence translated and then apply for a Greek car licence which will cost 50 Euros. They will then add the motorbike qualification, after I pass the test, to the car licence for another fee. Is this correct or are they taking me for a ride?

What would happen if I did not have a UK car licence? Should I just say that I don't have one?

............and no, I am not having a "mid life crisis" I just want a bike to go to the shops etc. as parking a car in Ag Nik has now become a nightmare after the road "improvements".

Thanks in advance

John

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Postby Kilkis » Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:04 pm

Well I think it is pretty obvious that they cannot add the motorbike category to your UK licence and I don't think they would be too happy about you having two licences, i.e. a UK one for the car and a Greek one for the motorbike?

Exactly what you need to do to change the UK car licence to a Greek one is on http://www.livingincrete.net/board/view ... 54&start=0 under my name. The fees may have increased since then.

I managed to get an official translation of my licence for free. A friend at work did the translation and the boss got his lawyer to endorse it as correct. Recently when I had a simple translation done it cost 40 Euro per sheet. The old green licence is quite complicated and at least two sheets so I would guess about 100 Euro +. I still have it as a word document so if you have the old green licence I can send you a copy. It MIGHT then be cheaper to get it endorsed rather than starting from scratch. Obviously you would need to fill in your own data.

If you are already 65 you will also need a medical and an eye test which will cost 45 Euro each. If you are not yet 65 you will need to renew the whole licence when you reach 65, and subsequently every three years, even if that is only a few months later. The total cost of renewal is 153 Euro.

KEP can do everything for you, except sit the test.

Warwick

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Postby Topdriller » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:59 am

John,

If the bike is 50cc or under you don't need to take a driving test, can drive legally on your UK licence etc and therefore your costs will be considerably cheaper. Also, and if so inclined, you can buy a select number of 80cc bikes (Chinese of course) but they're registered as 50cc so you don't have to take the test, change your licence etc.

I only know this because my brother in law has been driving a 50c bike here for three years and has had full insurance, paperwork etc using his original UK licence. He now has the 80cc version and again, no test, paperwork all legitimate etc.

A word of warning though, during his first year he worked for a bike rental business here in Chania and the clients were known as "organ donors".

Then again, if you're thinking of buy a Hog (Harley) you may have to just bite the bullet and take your test.

Jon
We need men who dream of things that never were.

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Postby paulh » Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:41 pm

Or of course there are electric bikes fairly readily available on Crete with none of the above hassles. How good they are long term I don't know so if the batteries are shot after 2 years and replacement ones only come from a small shop at the back of Beijing then perhaps not such a good idea.

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Postby allan » Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:19 pm

Jon,

I looked into this a while ago,..... my UK (paper) licence allows me to ride a 49cc moped, and with all the confusion and legislation re Motor Bikes, CC`s, Greek licences etc. I thought I would get some information from the Police.

They stated that I could not ride a 49cc moped or a 50cc bike without a greek licence and without passing my M/C test...both parts. (even though they are happy to allow me to drive a car on my licence)

It would help if you could post the legislation or ask your B.i.L if he has ever had to prove to the authorities his legal right to ride.

Thanks.

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Postby Topdriller » Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:07 pm

Allan,

The UK Government website http://www.aboutdrivingabroad.co.uk/you ... broad.html

states:

Moving Abroad and Your UK Licence:

If you’re planning to stay in a foreign country for an extended period of time, or are moving there permanently, you will need to speak to local authorities about using your UK licence. Many countries will let you use your licence for a particular period of time and then after this time has elapsed will expect you to chance to a local licence. Some will revoke your UK licence, others will let you keep it – it’s entirely country dependent. If you’re not sure, speak to someone at the local driving authority there or visit a local police station.

I'm meeting with my brother in law tonight so will ask him how he went about getting his insurance etc. From memory, I've a feeling no one asked him to produce a valid driving licence although I may be wrong on this.

I can't see how you can be allowed to drive a car and not a 50cc motorbike / scooter. I do know that the older UK licence holders were allowed to ride a bike without taking a test. This may have changed for younger drivers and they may well now have to take some form of bike driving test.

I'll report back once I've more info.

Jon
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allan
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Postby allan » Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:20 pm

Thanks for that Jon,

Could be that my licence states 49cc moped.... not a 50 cc M/B

What about three wheel Motor Bikes, in the UK we could ride those on our full car licence.

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Postby paulh » Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:02 pm

just to put a side issue onto this....

how do the holiday scooter/moped rental people go about keeping within the law. Not actually done it but its certain holidaymakers don't go through the rigmarole RIC describes. They certainly don't take a Greek motorbike test before using a hired vehicle so why is RIC required to go through all those procedures. Is there a legal difference in riding a hired vehicle and riding an owned vehicle?

What RIC has been told is what he needs to do to get a motorcycle qualification on his licence. From what Allan was told it would appear he does need to do this but was he told correctly? Given that all parties were saying that the English licence would need translating how would any Greek policeman know that the English licence was valid for up to 49cc bikes too? And if the car part of a UK licence was valid then why is another part invalid?

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Postby Clio » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:41 pm

Can I suggest putting these and the other valid questions raised, in numbered detail, via the Contact Us link to the (Greek) Ministry of Transport?

http://www.yme.gr/index.php?getwhat=1&o ... d=&tid=531

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Postby allan » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:59 pm

I totally agree with you Paul, those of us trying to abide by the laws are having difficulties with the legislation involved.

Maybe I should try to hire a 80cc Scooter from a local shop and ask what documents/licences I actually require by law to be able to rent.

If, as Topdriller says then I am out tomorrow looking for a 50cc scooter but as far as I am aware,( may be wrong, have been before), I do not think I have the required licence here in Greece.
However, saying that, how do the 15/16yr old Greek children manage to purchase and drive these bikes?

Clio, Thanks for the link, maybe we can get a definitive answer from them, not holding my breath though.

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Postby Kilkis » Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:40 am

paulh wrote:just to put a side issue onto this....
how do the holiday scooter/moped rental people go about keeping within the law.


Based on our experience, they don't give a damn. Many years ago we came to Crete on holiday with our 16 year old son. He had no licence of any sort. I have a full car and motorbike licence. At that time my wife had a provisional car licence. We hired two bikes. A 250 cc Suzuki for my wife and I and a 50 cc moped for our son. They used my wife's provisional licence to register the bike to our son. They happen to have the same initial.

paulh wrote:Given that all parties were saying that the English licence would need translating how would any Greek policeman know that the English licence was valid for up to 49cc bikes too?


It is a condition of CONVERTING a UK licence to a Greek licence that you need a translation of the UK licence. It is nothing to do with the police being able to recognise categories on foreign licences. You don't need a translation to drive using a foreign licence.

The EU licences are effectively all the same. There is a category "A1" for mopeds up to 50 cc, or some roughly equivalent limit, and a category "A" for motorbikes over 50 cc. "A1" used to be granted automatically to UK car drivers. "A" required passing a test. The police can recognise what you are entitled to drive from these categories.

paulh wrote:And if the car part of a UK licence was valid then why is another part invalid?


Exactly! As far as I can see the driving licence for any EU country is valid in any other EU country. That is an EU regulation and nothing to do with DVLA or Greek licensing authorities. If your UK licence says that you are entitled to drive category "A1" then you are entitled to drive it. If the police say that you can't then they are breaking the EU regulation. A similar discrepancy occurs with commercial vehicles. In Greece you need a "professional" licence to drive any sort of commercial vehicle. In the UK you can drive up to 7500 kg on a car licence. If somebody with a UK licence took a 7500 kg vehicle from the UK, loaded it up and drove to Greece would he be driving illegally? All the evidence says NO! The principle is the same.

Warwick

PS On questions of law, it might be better to ask a lawyer than a policeman? I suspect Greek policemen have very little knowledge of the law?

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Postby Jean » Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:54 am

Why don't you ask an insurance company? They ought to know what you need to drive/ride legally. Personally I wouldn't believe what the police says.

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Postby big vern » Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:02 am

If you passed your driving test in the UK after 1st Jan 1997, you do not have automatic entitlement to drive vehicles over 3.5t gross or to tow trailers. Also generally speaking for vehicles over 3.5t gross, the owner (or operator) must have passed a cpc exam, have a suitable operating centre for such vehicles and an operator's licence for that particular vehicle, which must be displayed in the windscreen. The vehicle must be fitted with a tachograph and the driver must use it and obey the relevant rules for driving the vehicle. Also all vehicles over 3.5t gross, although not necessarily fitted with speed limiters, have different permitted maximum speeds. I believe different rules apply to privetely owned vehicles not used for hire or reward. Finally, if like me you have category p on your driving licence, you are allowed to ride a moped of engine size up to 50cc and max speed 50 km/h.

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Re: Being taken for a ride?

Postby Carolina » Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:31 pm

Retired in Crete wrote:In order to take my Greek motorbike test the school has told me that I first have to get my UK car licence translated and then apply for a Greek car licence which will cost 50 Euros. They will then add the motorbike qualification, after I pass the test, to the car licence for another fee. Is this correct or are they taking me for a ride?

What would happen if I did not have a UK car licence?

John


John, I expect that it would be more expensive and more hassle to go for a Greek bike licence from the beginning if you 'don't have' a car licence - you'll have to take the written Highway Code test again (as well as the bike test part, below), and I believe that lessons for the Highway Code are also compulsory and charged for so this could be quite a hefty extra expense.

You'll also have the expense of doctors tests, eye tests etc.. everything you need when you go for a first licence.

If you add a bike licence to your existing car licence the written part comprises of just a few easy (ridiculous?) questions 'such as what clothes you should wear when riding a bike' (quote from my son!). You won't have to re-do the Highway Code and doctors certificates.

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Postby lshall05 » Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:34 pm

Clio wrote:Can I suggest putting these and the other valid questions raised, in numbered detail, via the Contact Us link to the (Greek) Ministry of Transport?

http://www.yme.gr/index.php?getwhat=1&o ... d=&tid=531

Clio, I tried doing that about 3 years ago and I'm still waiting on the reply!
Living in Crete!!


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