New property tax on DEH bill

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Carolina
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New property tax on DEH bill

Postby Carolina » Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:44 pm

Greek Finance Ministry has just announced a new tax levy on property, raised via DEH electricity bills.

A special levy, with an average of €4 per square meter, will apply for real estate properties - depending on the property value zones, the levy will be from €0.50 up to €10 per square meter.

The draft bill will be sent to Parliament for approval the end of October, so wait for the levy around Christmas - the levy will be collected once for the year 2011... shocking... and in tranches for 2012.

From Keep Talking Greece
Last edited by Carolina on Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Retired in Crete » Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:37 pm

Another stupid tax!

In Kathimerini a few days ago the government named companies owing (if I remember correctly) a total of over 30 billion Euros. If the govt are so desperate they should chase up their debtors and not expect property owners to make up the shortfall.

It also strikes me as crazy that the tax is based only on the square meterage of the property so that the village house with no land will pay the same as a similar house on a 6 stremma plot.

John

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Postby Carolina » Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:20 pm

Having read and translated the Greek news, I've updated the above as the €4 per meter is an overall average figure. The levy per sq meter will be made according to property value zones.

kouti
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Postby kouti » Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:25 pm

If it's being levied via the DEH bills, it will hit the tenant in a rented property and not the owner in the first instance.
Is this the intention of the Govt., I wonder?

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Postby greekboy » Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:11 am

Another fudge by the Greeks, they are frightened to death of dealing with the 150000 civil servants who need to go to make the public sector more efficient and cost effective, instead they screw home owners who are easy targets. It appears that one of the problems that the Troika had when accessing the government 10 days ago was the total lack of movement by the Greeks to sort out the civil service, it's easy to see why the Greeks find themselves in this mess when as usual they talk and promise things but do nothing
Fred

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Postby filippos » Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:57 am

Germany is adding to the pressure with ministerial statements as reported here.

I was only mildly surprised when a friend commented a few days ago, "I'm going to try to sell my business; I'm not going to work for the f***ing Germans. And our government [spits] is making it impossible to survive with the extra taxes. The EU and IMF will have us starving." The other four business owners who were present heartily endorsed the sentiments.

If feelings like that spread there could be more than taxi driver strikes to cope with.

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Postby Carolina » Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:55 pm

kouti wrote:If it's being levied via the DEH bills, it will hit the tenant in a rented property and not the owner in the first instance.
Is this the intention of the Govt., I wonder?


No, not at all apparently, the government have today clarified that this tax will be for property owners and tenants will not be liable to pay it. Even if the electricity bill is in the name of the tenant rather than the owner, then the tax will be transferred to the property owner.

Meanwhile DEH employees union, GENOP, have said they won't allow DEH to become a tax collecting machine and will not allow the government to blackmail property owners into paying this tax with the threat of having their electricity supply cut off if they don't pay.

http://news.in.gr/greece/article/?aid=1231127954

Is this tax all hot air? Just a plan by the govt to appease the Troika and show how the govt can collect millions of euros in extra taxes by February - on paper at least - yet expecting that there will be great opposition and it probably won't come about?

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Postby Topdriller » Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:45 pm

The Greeks are only going to take so much and this proposed tax might tip them over the edge. I remember being told years ago that a Greek builds his first house to sell, his second to rent and his third to live in.

The season here has been particularly hard and even though visitor numbers were up their buying power was 20% down on last year - except the tavernas and cafes i.e. people have to eat wherever they are.

You've got to wonder when the Government is going to pull the plug, default and return to the Drachma. They must know they've no chance of ever repaying the debt.

Let's just hope they have a back up plan, because if not there will be a revolution over here.

Jon
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Postby Retired in Crete » Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:35 pm

Carolina wrote: the government have today clarified that this tax will be for property owners and tenants will not be liable to pay it. Even if the electricity bill is in the name of the tenant rather than the owner, then the tax will be transferred to the property owner.


.........and if the property owner does not pay – they cut off the electricity!
At the next rent review the owner will increase the rent to cover the new tax!

Another thought. The tax on the owner of rented properties is a “business expense” which, in the UK, would be tax deductable! So no gain to the exchequer!

Topdriller wrote:The Greeks are only going to take so much and this proposed tax might tip them over the edge.


Some Brits are getting a bit annoyed as well!
We contribute to the economy by bringing our cash here to spend, pay VAT and provide work for the local population and most of us take nothing out!
Perhaps we should band together and threaten to leave!

Viva la revolution!

John

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Postby filippos » Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:28 pm

Topdriller wrote:The season here has been particularly hard and even though visitor numbers were up their buying power was 20% down on last year - except the tavernas and cafes i.e. people have to eat wherever they are.
Certainly, it's been reported that visitor numbers are up but there's been no evidence of that in Kalyves which has been noticeably quieter than previously. Maybe the official figures include passengers from the cruise boats who spend 4-5 hours in Xania.

As for cafés and tavernas being OK my own observations and conversations with various owners suggest otherwise. We live very close to the beach road and throughout July and half August tavernas that were crowded last year have frequently been only half full or less.

Yes, everyone has to eat but..... I've spoken to visitors who in previous years have eaten out every night have told me that this year they have done so only four or five times in two weeks and self-catered the rest of the time: this year more places have offered inclusive deals [reportedly, the main hotel even included drinks]: several of the tavernas also have a few apartments and they offered all inclusive rates so those without accommodation have suffered: we've also noted that many Greek families are eating out less frequently.

The only period that the tavernas and cafés have been anything like as busy as previously as in previous years was the couple of weeks when people came over from the mainland for Panagia. Even then, one café owning friend reckoned that his takings were more than 30% down on last year and 50% down on 2009. Maybe things have been better on Akrotiri.

I certainly agree with you that people will not put up with things getting even tougher, especially as the situation is perceived as being driven by France, Germany, the ECB and the IMF.

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Postby filippos » Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:36 pm

Carolina wrote:
kouti wrote:No, not at all apparently, the government have today clarified that this tax will be for property owners and tenants will not be liable to pay it. Even if the electricity bill is in the name of the tenant rather than the owner, then the tax will be transferred to the property owner.
I wonder how this will work out in cases like ours. The DEH bill is in the landlord's name and he simply hands it to us to pay directly to DEH. What happens if the tenant says, "I'm not paying the tax part of the bill," and the landlord's response is, "Oh dear, then I won't be able to renew your rental agreement when the time comes."?

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Postby fuzer » Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:08 am

Talking of austere policies - the UK government are hitting back at the banks ? Tough (ha ha ho ho) regulation STARTING FROM 2019 - well, thats the banks sorted ??? all is forgiven.
ALWAYS FINISH WHAT YOU STAR

kouti
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Postby kouti » Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:56 am

The above comments are certainly thought provoking / worrying.
How about this for a scenario ..... the very great majority of property owners pay the usual part of the bill but don't pay the new tax.
Presumably, back at DEH HQ there are two 'pots' for the relevant amounts and so as far as DEH is concerned (with their declared lack of enthusuiasm for their new role) all is OK.
They might therefore have little interest in ultimate disconnection and the Govt would somehow have to force such an event.
Result : even greater widespread discontent.
Dario Fo anyone?

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Prtoperty tax extended

Postby jane clayton » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:01 pm

Now that the 'new' property tax is set to run till 2014 can someone please clarify whether it is to be calculated on the area of the built living space (the house) only or the total area owned, which includes land (house and surrounding land).

Jeffstclair
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Postby Jeffstclair » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:05 pm

I guess the bill will be calculated from the information gathered from the census, therefore the size of the house.
I don't think the land registry is complete enough at the moment .
So how do you find out your" value zone"... jeff...


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