driving licence

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Hudson
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Location: East Crete

Postby Hudson » Sat Sep 08, 2007 6:38 pm

[quote="Retired in CreteIt may seem a silly question but why would you want to do this?

Provided that you have the "credit card" type licence with the EU "ring of stars" on it this is effectively an European licence and valid throughout Europe. I am aware that this licence has to show a UK address but this only needs to be an address through which you can be contacted, you do not need to live there.


John[/quote]

I think Warwick@ and Altohb's reply/comments explain why.

To me it looks as though an"accommodation/contact address in the UK is not acceptable as far as the DVLA are concerned. My concer, the same as Wariwick's and Altohb's is to find out thatthe paper work was incorrect just when you needed everything to be OK.

My choice will be to change it - there's enough to worry about when driving here without wondering if you are legal or not.

Muttly
Posts: 189
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:05 am
Location: Pseudo-America

Postby Muttly » Sat Sep 08, 2007 6:56 pm

Carolina wrote:woaaaah Muttly, please relax.

"what does the Greek DVLA(?) say? What do they require of you to drive if you are a resident?"

More importantly what do the Greek police say when they stop you and you show a UK licence? Absolutely no problem and no checks on your details - in actual fact I've found it to be a bonus.


"What happens when you are stopped by police for a traffic offence in UK? You have your driving licence (with an invalid address) and your Greek residency card. If the police cannot verify who you are (the ID Card will be all in Greek no doubt),"
How do they know it's an invalid address? Why would you show a Greek residency card if you have a UK address on your licence? You have a passport for ID.

Now here is something else to worry about if you don't agree with the above..

Your Greek residence permit must be issued 95 days prior to submitting an application for the Greek licence. So during those 95 days will you not be driving in Crete at all, or will you be driving on an 'invalid' UK licence with an invalid address ??


"What happens when you are stopped by police for a traffic offence in UK? You have your driving licence (with an invalid address) and your Greek residency card. If the police cannot verify who you are (the ID Card will be all in Greek no doubt),"

How do they know it's an invalid address? Why would you show a Greek residency card if you have a UK address on your licence? You have a passport for ID.

So you are going to answer dishonestly are you?

Because you will not be on the voters register for a start. The police now have direct access to the voters register. I am afraid to have to tell you the matter of identities is becoming more and more of an issue. Let me just say I know what I am talking about here because I have heard enough exscuses.

If the car is foreign registered and you start giving false details of where you reside before you know it you'll be cooling your heels in the pokey getting things verified. It's not just traffic offences it's customs one that actually are more important. Don't go into the importation of stuff and cars at the moment....but....

If you get lifted and have a Greek residency card (you will be searched and I think your Greek ID Card may now be enough for UK passport entry). If you are searched and you start showing up with multiple addresses you present more questions that you are answering. Your car will be searched. All the powers are there and because of the foreign registration it allows immediate access to the ant-terrorist legislation.

Think again. A UK licence with an address that you do not live at, a Greek Residency/ID Card they cannot verify and a foreign registered vehicle. Your passport will not verify your address for the service of summonsses either and you will therefore as far as I can recall not recieve bail as you have no suitable UK address for bail and will be brought before the court next morning as you do not have a suitable address for the service of summonses.

Phone a freind? So you've been pulled at Ashford and he lives in Brum. Would you believe a voice over the ether. No and I would not either. Oh and by the way Colin the Police Dog has just sniffed and had a wee over your rear wheel so their busy stripping your 1995 Toyota down looking for drugs, oh and the Traffic Patrol Sergeant has dropped by and despite you protetstations of the having a Greek equivelent of an MOT he's just proceessed you for ten odd Contruction and Use Offences plus the original ones you got stopped for.

The customs want to know why you've got 2000 cigarettes in your possession because you told then you don't smoke so they cannot be for your use. Bye bye Grandfathers present, now the car is definately forefit as it was the vehicle used in the commissionof the offence.

So now your at Court, you've just been fined £1500 or 7 days for various offences. You've had your fingerprints taken, your palm prints, your DNA taken, your photograph, all your personal details on a CRO 74 and now you've go a criminal record. You chip and pin won't work, you can't pay the fine, you'll love the girls at Holloway, wether you want to or not so I'm told. Still you'll get half remission so that will be three days.

Now which driving licence are you presenting madam?

Muttly
Posts: 189
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:05 am
Location: Pseudo-America

Postby Muttly » Sat Sep 08, 2007 7:09 pm

"Your Greek residence permit must be issued 95 days prior to submitting an application for the Greek licence. So during those 95 days will you not be driving in Crete at all, or will you be driving on an 'invalid' UK licence with an invalid address ??"

I have not a clue that is why I was asking you etc.

But I do know what goes on in the UK and if you come back via Dover and any of the Channel ports, via Kent and the M25, Essex, London, M4, M3, M26 you can run into inreasing numbers of security and ID checks and quite frankly I can think up offences that you will never even have heard of and will have you detained in an instant. Times have changed.

The attitude is changing as well, there is much more emphasis on on the spot fines etc, so ID and address verification is paramount. There was a day when a lady could use her feminine whiles and recieve a ticking off, nowdays with some of the old bill I'd stand more chance blowing kisses and winking at PC 49.

The Adjectival LFB
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Postby The Adjectival LFB » Sat Sep 08, 2007 7:34 pm

Muttly, I don’t think I can take much more or this UK bashing. Everyone knows the Finest are beyond reproach, the reason for our country’s integrity and a hundred other things I shouldn’t have to tell you about. Your role of anarchisticloosecannon has already been reined in, I can only implore you to respect that and desist from further treasonable mischief.

Yours, LFB.
Lowell, Frank and Townes - all gone now.

Hudson
Posts: 193
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 12:35 pm
Location: East Crete

Postby Hudson » Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:00 pm

Muttly, calm down.

You have really let your imagination run away with you. This thread started with a simple question about taking a motorcyle test. It moved on to cover change of address and now we have you wittering on about terrorism, importing cars to the UK, other people driving said cars, smuggling cigarettes, sniffer dogs, stripping down 12 yr old cars, voters registers, losing your licence, getting a duplicate and someone ending up in Holloway, to name just a few of the scenarios you have chucked in.

Please give us a rest.

Carolina
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Postby Carolina » Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:08 pm

Sorry Muttly, it's the Greek mentality which has very definitely rubbed off on me. It seems to me that the driving license rules are ambiguous, as shown by footscapes Paul, and it is not something that I worry about - it's not black and white so I interpret it as grey and do not insist on finding the definitive black or white. Something you learn to live with in Greece. I have no problem using my UK license here, and I have a UK 'contact' address. I don't believe this is being 'dishonest'.

Very few people who are resident in Greece drive their Greek registered car back to the UK for a holiday - the scenario I am thinking of is if stopped by UK police in a hire car - I produce my UK driving licence. What else would they ask for as proof of ID ?

If you follow a certain interpretation of the rules then by the same token I would suggest that you would also be illegally driving once you leave the UK on your journey over to Crete, and the first 95 days, as the address on your driving licence is, as you say, no longer valid. A grey area indeed.

paulh
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Postby paulh » Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:08 pm

Where is everyone's problem?

the response from the DVLC on page 1 of this thread says

If you return to GB as a resident in the future to a different address to what is on your driving licence, then we can amend your details if required, at that time.

You will be covered on (sic) drive on your visits home to GB.


If a licence without your true address on is genuinely invalid and so invalidates your insurance etc then that puts the mockers on you driving the campervan back to England to sell it Muttly!


...and our next topic is..How many angels can dance on the point of a needle

footscapes
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Location: Crete no longer!

Driving licence

Postby footscapes » Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:46 pm

Crikey! I only went to watch Dr Who for an hour (thank you BBC Prime for staying FTA) and look what kicks off.

The EU law is clear - see http://ec.europa.eu/youreurope/nav/en/citizens/living/car/driving-license/index_en.html
(Essentially, full validity and acceptance of inter - EU "model" form licences throughout member states WITHOUT ENFORCED EXCHANGE). After living in Crete for only two years, I am only too well acquainted with the Greek government's capacity to ignore or loosely interpret EU law. I do, however, believe that the UK ultimately will abide by EU rulings - sorry, Muttly, if this not in accordance with your views on life. The difficulty is that the DVLA's published info doesn't quite tick all the necessary boxes, so my email was an attempt to tease out some clarification. The response I received satisfies me (but you must take your own view). At the Greek end of things, I simply think that there is no problem. I own a car and motorcycle here, and am fairly relaxed when asked to produce my documents, including UK licence. My (Greek) vehicle insurers have asked to examine a copy of my driving licence as a pre-condition to issuing certificates and have subsequently issued them without problem.

Paul

Muttly
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Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:05 am
Location: Pseudo-America

Postby Muttly » Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:32 pm

paulh wrote:Where is everyone's problem?

the response from the DVLC on page 1 of this thread says

If you return to GB as a resident in the future to a different address to what is on your driving licence, then we can amend your details if required, at that time.

You will be covered on (sic) drive on your visits home to GB.


If a licence without your true address on is genuinely invalid and so invalidates your insurance etc then that puts the mockers on you driving the campervan back to England to sell it Muttly!


...and our next topic is..How many angels can dance on the point of a needle


Well actually wrong Paul, you see the Camper Van is a hire vehicle from a secure address in UK. For the period of the hire I will be renting for a month @ £2500 (I have quotes). I never mentioned buying or selling. It will be returned to the UK within the period of the validity of the licence an insurance. If I am obliged to stick within the appropriate residency qualifications to obtain a driving licence then I will. I'm not going to knowing break the law of my hosts. So lets deal with that one first.

The Adjectival LFB
Posts: 147
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 4:49 pm
Location: In a cool, dry place.

Postby The Adjectival LFB » Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:56 pm

Hope I didn't kick this lot - it was t. in c. Agent Provocateur, even if I don't wear underwear.
Lowell, Frank and Townes - all gone now.

Muttly
Posts: 189
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:05 am
Location: Pseudo-America

Postby Muttly » Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:57 pm

The Adjectival LFB wrote:Muttly, I don’t think I can take much more or this UK bashing. Everyone knows the Finest are beyond reproach, the reason for our country’s integrity and a hundred other things I shouldn’t have to tell you about. Your role of anarchisticloosecannon has already been reined in, I can only implore you to respect that and desist from further treasonable mischief.

Yours, LFB.

:twisted:

Now some people accuse me of Brit bashing. Some are the biggest leg pullers ever, beware. I report the facts as they are and as I know.

Now anyone know Poole Harbour in Dorset. If you do and you have driven through it or on and off any ferry the Police have your index number and face. They have been conducting this Home Office experiment for 10 years as they intend to deploy it wherever they can.

The City of London Police have not only index number recognition, but face recognition. Do you recall a murder early last rear where the Asian suspects fled through the port of Harwich to Holland. Their number plate and drivers photo was recorded, passed to the Dutch Police and they were arrested in Holland.

It was not just them everyones was and every day everone coming in and out of those ports was. It does not matter what port. Smile your on Government TV.

What I'm trying to point out here that the officialdom of a foreign but reasonably benign if somewhat chaotic state may be infinately preferable to the blunderings of a so called efficient and fully IT equipped state with a bunch of people who earn marginally more than than your average Greek hosts in charge of it.

Muttly
Posts: 189
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:05 am
Location: Pseudo-America

Postby Muttly » Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:59 pm

Hudson wrote:Muttly, calm down.

You have really let your imagination run away with you. This thread started with a simple question about taking a motorcyle test. It moved on to cover change of address and now we have you wittering on about terrorism, importing cars to the UK, other people driving said cars, smuggling cigarettes, sniffer dogs, stripping down 12 yr old cars, voters registers, losing your licence, getting a duplicate and someone ending up in Holloway, to name just a few of the scenarios you have chucked in.

Please give us a rest.


Err done that been there if somebody does not like you face then there is not complaints system I know that will give you a recourse to justice.

Muttly
Posts: 189
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:05 am
Location: Pseudo-America

Postby Muttly » Sat Sep 08, 2007 11:11 pm

Carolina wrote:Sorry Muttly, it's the Greek mentality which has very definitely rubbed off on me. It seems to me that the driving license rules are ambiguous, as shown by footscapes Paul, and it is not something that I worry about - it's not black and white so I interpret it as grey and do not insist on finding the definitive black or white. Something you learn to live with in Greece. I have no problem using my UK license here, and I have a UK 'contact' address. I don't believe this is being 'dishonest'.

Very few people who are resident in Greece drive their Greek registered car back to the UK for a holiday - the scenario I am thinking of is if stopped by UK police in a hire car - I produce my UK driving licence. What else would they ask for as proof of ID ?

If you follow a certain interpretation of the rules then by the same token I would suggest that you would also be illegally driving once you leave the UK on your journey over to Crete, and the first 95 days, as the address on your driving licence is, as you say, no longer valid. A grey area indeed.


Carolina you have nailed it on the head. If you merge yourself in somebodies elses society it rubs off. Your own original countries changes can pass you by. The Greeks are very laid back. The Brits awefully anal these days preoccupied with all their internal problems.

I can quote incident after incident where tact and good humour (people will know here exactly what I mean) has been exchanged for the letter of the law and further because a lot of it is caught on Hard Disk you cannot get rid of the evidence because the threepenny bits in scrambled eggs need results and figures on paper.

They are not interested in your explanations, they want you money and if you end up up with a criminal conviction because of it than so be it!

Example, airline pilot comes back into the UK with 43 cigarettes. By agreement with BA pilots and cabin crew are allowed to bring into UK a maximum of 40. Customs rummige squad goes aboard, searches the aircraft and all the crew. They do not have to give a reason. They find the 43 fags. He is charged with illegal importation taken to Uxbridge Magistrates Court and given an absaloute discharge.

However because BA has an agreement with Customs & Excise that anyone in their employ convicted of a customs offence will be fired he lost his job. Spiffing isn't it. Oh and BA got fined because it was an offence commited on their aircraft.

paulh
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Postby paulh » Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:07 am

Muttly why dont you read what is written

The DVLC say that you will be covered if you visit the UK

Your licence can be amended when you return to the UK permanently (if you do)

everything else is hot air

Its not a question of laid back or anything else

end of story this is just getting silly


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