Beginning of the end . . . .

For discussion, news, comments, questions and information about Crete & Greece.
Ray
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Beginning of the end . . . .

Postby Ray » Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:41 pm

It is such a shame, the island that I have loved for so long . . .

http://crete.wordpress.com

Ray

Jeffstclair
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Location: The centre of the universe

Postby Jeffstclair » Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:50 pm

Ray I know what you mean ,but I would rather have Windturbine and PV than the ugly and thick brown smoke producing diesel burning power station that we have down on the coast near here... you can taste the smoke in the air even when you can't see it and the once beautiful cove that it is built in is now an industrial complex.... that is very sad ,we just must ALL learn to use less of the stuff...jeff....

Al
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Postby Al » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:28 am

I rather like the wind turbines - they are elegant and efficient. Just got back from Wellington NZ, where the government has made some a tourist attraction and very attractive too.

Kilkis
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Postby Kilkis » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:37 am

It's a very nicely put together video but that can't disguise the fact that it is still NIMBYism. The servers that distribute the video to people like us consume huge amounts of electricity. How should it be generated? Large quantities of gold are used in building those servers and the PCs we use to view it with. That gold is often extracted using mercury which totally destroys the surrounding environment and everything in it.

Everything mankind does destroys the natural environment. The Parthenon was built on a piece of natural environment and destroyed it. The fact that people tend to view the Parthenon as aesthetically pleasing doesn't alter the fact that it is man made and to build it man destroyed something natural. Plants grew there and animals lived there. The video talks about tourism but every tourist needs a hotel room to stay in and building those hotels destroys part of the natural environment that the tourists come to see. When I built my house and Ray built his we destroyed part of the natural environment.

Every year in the spring one or two young birds fly into the windows of my house, usually with fatal consequences. While driving I have only hit birds a few times in my life but it does happen and there are millions of cars driving round every day. I doubt if wind turbines kill many cats, dogs, badgers, stone martins etc. As a species we gratuitously slaughter massive quantities of wildlife every day in pursuit of our normal activities apart from the ones we kill for food and other materials. Ever listened to radio? You'd be amazed how birds explode when they fly into the feeders to the antennas. One hell of a bang just for your entertainment.

Crete is very different now from how it was a million years ago, a thousand years ago or even how it was 20 years ago. It is constantly changing and most of those changes are man made. With every single change there are people who would regard it as a good thing, people who would regard it as a bad thing and people who simply wouldn't care.

Mankind is determined to grow. Growth is the holy grail of every government in the world today. The more they grow the more successful they regard themselves. Continuous growth destroys more and more of the planet. Growth cannot continue indefinitely. Wind turbines are simply one feature of man's destruction of the planet. They are no more or less significant then any other feature, unless, of course, like Ray, you are opposed to wind turbines.

Warwick

filippos
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Postby filippos » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:50 am

Al wrote:...... - they are elegant and efficient. Just got back from Wellington NZ, where the government has made some a tourist attraction and very attractive too.
The only bit of that I'd disagree with is "efficient". What are they up to now? 30% max in the most favourable situations and conditions?

peebee
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Postby peebee » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:59 am

Al wrote:I rather like the wind turbines - they are elegant and efficient.


Al, I agree they look elegant, but as for efficient - no!
They will never in their lifetimes generate as much energy as it takes to build and maintain them.
I worked with a structural engineer, whose previous job was in a study group, analysing `green' energy production, including wave and tidal power.
The conclusion after a number of years was that none of them were viable using current technology, and I don't think that has changed much since.

moved 2 crete
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Postby moved 2 crete » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:41 pm

grim stuff, progress and destruction. mankind can`t win.
Dave H

filippos
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Postby filippos » Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:23 pm

Al and peebee,
We could start our own little local discussion group over coffee or summat.

peebee
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Postby peebee » Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:07 pm

filippos wrote:Al and peebee,
We could start our own little local discussion group over coffee or summat.

Sort of `Grumpy old men? :lol: , well fairly old in my case, still think I'm 23 but my body disagrees.

Phaedra
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Postby Phaedra » Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:54 pm

Very interesting video but incredibly over-emotional. I don't like wind turbines and i agree that the planning and location of the PV's could do with a lot more thought. But, time, progress, development, the human race does not stand still and I certainly wouldn't want to go back to relying on antiquated forms of energy production. I like Warwick's point that through every stage of history, man has adapted the environment to fit his needs - even ancient buildings impact the natural environment.

So let's not bow to the depressing tone of the video and Ray's thread title. There's still plenty of beauty in Crete today and we can all, in some way, help that along.

DJ
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Location: East Barnet, North London, UK

Postby DJ » Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:07 pm

Thanks for giving us the opportunity to see that, Ray. Very powerful.

filippos
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Postby filippos » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:42 pm

peebee wrote:............., well fairly old in my case, still think I'm 23 but my body disagrees.
It's a relief to know I'm not alone in that.

SatCure
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Postby SatCure » Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:52 am

peebee wrote:well fairly old in my case, still think I'm 23 but my body disagrees.

I haven't progressed past 18 (according to my wife). My body also disagrees. We should all get together for a whinge. See who aches the most! 8)

As for the movie - it lacks a specific "call for action". But I agree with making energy by "clean" methods, in principle and I also agree that it can be a bit of an eyesore in places. But in other places I think the energy farms (all types) look quite appealing.

filippos
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Postby filippos » Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:17 am

The quote's wrongly attributed. Quick edit needed.

Eleni13
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Postby Eleni13 » Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:05 am

peebee wrote:
Al wrote:I rather like the wind turbines - they are elegant and efficient.


They will never in their lifetimes generate as much energy as it takes to build and maintain them.


Or remove them when they come to the end of their useful life. Or fall down.

[url][http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/energy/windpower/9837026/Wind-turbine-collapses-in-high-wind.html][/url]


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