Electricity prices (yet again)

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altohb
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Electricity prices (yet again)

Postby altohb » Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:47 pm

While we were aware that the price of electricity was due to rise in January by 9% (as in the eKathimerini article posted here previously - http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_ar ... 013_478234) we were extremely disturbed by our latest bill, in which the cost of all the "sundry" taxes & charges seem to have, roughly, doubled.

Our usage costs were roughly in line with what we expected (having read the meter at the same time as the man from DEH) and using the current tariff as on the website. I understand (I think) the derivation of the figures for ΕΛΛΙΝΙΚΟ ΣΥΣΤΗΜΑ ΜΕΤΑΦΟΡΑΣ Η/Ε/ ΔΙΑΝΟΜΗΣ Η/Ε, although the amounts on the tariff sheet relating to ? €/kVA*S1/'ετος are a mystery to me - are these added to the amounts for "μεταφορές" etc?

What on earth, though, is all the rest of it, and why is it twice what we paid on our last "clear" bill?

Would be grateful for information from anyone who has made sense of this!

Kilkis
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Postby Kilkis » Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:52 pm

There still doesn't seem to be a DEH web page in English for the tariffs but there is one in Greek. In terms of understanding the bill this is arguably better since you can see the same words used on the tariff table as n the bill. For normal domestic rates the tables are at http://www.dei.gr/Documents2/TIM%20XT%2 ... %CE%97.pdf while for night rate they are at http://www.dei.gr/Documents2/TIM%20XT%2 ... %CF%81.pdf

If you look on the back of the bill you will see the various amounts itemised. In a table at the top left hand side there are the meter readings, most recent and previous, and the amount of electricity consumed in kWh. Down the right hand column are all the calculations, most of which are based on that consumed electricity.

At the top of this right hand column are the direct electricity costs which consist of a fixed charge plus a charge calculated from the kWh and the price per kWh. Depending on the amount consumed there may be more than one calculation because the cost of electricity per kWh goes up in bands the more you use. Most people will have one or two lines but really heavy users could have up to four plus the fixed charge. If you have cut rate night time electricity there will be a second fixed charge and a second set of multiplications.

Below the direct costs are another set of calculations for indirect costs. Look for the key words ΜΕΤΑΦΟΡΑΣ, ΔΙΑΝΟΜΗΣ, ΩΦΕΛΕΙΑΣ and ΛΟΙΠΕΣ. If you look in the tables linked above you will see exactly the same key words. If you look below those key words in the tariff tables you will find a figure in €/kWh. The amount for each item is calculated by multiplying this figure by the electricity consumed. Note that there are different numbers for some of these items in the normal tariff and the cut rate tariff so you have to use the appropriate amounts of each type. There is a fifth figure in this list which actually shows the calculation headed "ΕΙΔ. ΤΕΛ. ΜΕΙΩΣΗΣ ΕΚΠΟΜΠΩΝ ΑΕΡΙΩΝ ΡΥΠΩΝ" which I think is a levy for reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

Below the indirect costs is a calculation to account for the intermediate payment already made since the main calculation is for the whole four month period. There are also some very small adjustments here under various laws.

Next VAT is calculated.

Finally you have calculations for council tax, ΔΗΜΟΥ, TV licence, ΕΡΤ, and the emergency property tax, ΕΕΤΗΔΕ.

Hope this helps

Warwick

altohb
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Postby altohb » Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:10 pm

Thanks, Warwick. However, maybe I wasn't clear enough in my question. I understand most of the terms used in the bill, and I have downloaded the tariff page (Greek). What I hadn't taken in is that all these figures seem to be related to usage - that's obviously what we've missed in the past.

By the way - we keep a very careful eye on our consumption and calculate the approximate bill, so that's why this threw us so much. However, how can one calculate the €/kVA*ΣΙ/ετος?

Kilkis
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Postby Kilkis » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:22 pm

You are correct that virtually all the figures are proportional to usage, not just the direct charges.

As far as I can tell you don't really need to consider the €/kVA*ΣΙ/ετος figure. The actual kVA figure for your property is shown at the bottom left of the little table on your bill showing the meter readings. It is 230 x (the maximum rated current of your supply) x (1 or 3) depending on whether you are single or three phase. It is not a consumption measure rather a rated capacity figure. I think it is used to calculate some of the fixed costs.

For example ΠΑΓΙΑ ΧΡΕΩΣΗ is not totally fixed but depends on the rated capacity of your supply. I think it is the (€/kVA* ΣΙ/έτος) figure shown in the ΔΙΚΤΥΟ ΔΙΑΝΟΜΗΣ column of the DEH charge table multiplied by the rated kVA of your supply as shown on the bill divided by 3 because the table figure is per year but the bill is only for four months. This is then added to the completely fixed ΠΑΓΙΑ ΧΡΕΩΣΗ charge shown in the first table of the DEH charge table. It shouldn't vary with usage.

I'm not sure what the other (€/kVA* ΣΙ/έτος) figure is used for but it should be a pretty small amount, e.g. less than €1.50 so of no great concern. It might be added to the consumption based figure calculated for ΔΙΚΤΥΟ ΜΕΤΑΦΟΡΑΣ.

Warwick
Last edited by Kilkis on Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

altohb
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Postby altohb » Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:48 am

Thanks; I'm probably nit-picking, but I like to be able to work these things out for myself, so all this information is useful. I don't like getting nasty surprises!

Kilkis
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Postby Kilkis » Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:27 pm

I also like to work it out. I'm not too concerned about surprises but experience teaches me that it is not unknown for large organisations to get things wrong in their favour and hope that most people don't notice. I am 100 % certain that HMRC does this on an industrial scale.

I can't completely verify the calculation at the moment because my last bill covered the period from September to 8 January so it wasn't calculated using the latest tables. I will check when I get the next full bill, probably in late April early May.

Warwick

Clio
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Postby Clio » Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:17 pm

Talking of nasty electric shocks, did you know it is not safe to believe (DEH’s assertion) that an εκκαθαριστικό bill is based on a meter reading? Nor that it can therefore be assumed to be accurate and up-to-date?

We had a colossal bill at the end of November which included several hundred euros for “adjustments”. There could hardly have been any, since we were “clear” in July and had paid an εναντί in September.

I queued for an hour in the Rethymno DEH, dealing first with a rude minion then with a ruder supervisor, who ignored my attempts to explain why the bill couldn’t be right. “Never mind what the bill says. The only thing that matters is the meter reading and if that’s correct, then this is what you owe”.

When I stood my ground – “the meter reading tallies with the bill but maybe there is something wrong with the meter? After all I owed nothing in July and now you want all this money for adjustments” - Rude Supervisor confirmed what people in the village had suggested. That since we moved in a year ago we’d been underpaying by quite a lot, withour realising; that the meter had finally been read, for the first time before this massive bill, and that the εκκαθαριστικό of July had actually been just another estimate.

"The κέρατα have never come near to read the meters for months” said one friend. "Now finally they have done that in order to call in all the money owed by everyone.”

Belatedly – yes I know, don't rub it in – I intend to be checking my own meter and submitting the figure online, which DEH tells me I can do in order to get an accurate bill.

I did toy with the idea getting our lawyerr to challenge the legitimacy of a “cleared debt” that isn’t, but what do you reckon my chances would be?

Question is, are things going to be better or worse when DEH is privatised?

Kilkis
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Location: Near Chania

Postby Kilkis » Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:59 pm

Clio wrote:...I did toy with the idea getting our lawyerr to challenge the legitimacy of a “cleared debt” that isn’t, but what do you reckon my chances would be?...


If I understand you correctly the meter reading now is correct and it was previous readings that were just estimates. This would mean that you had underpaid previously and the high bill now is simply correcting those underpayments. If my understanding is correct then, when you settle this bill, you will have paid for the actual amount of electricity consumed. I don't think a lawyer could really do anything about this.

There is a possibility that you are paying more for the electricity consumed than you would have done if readings had been taken at the correct times. For example, if the rate at which electricity was charged has increased during the whole period where estimated readings were used or because the large amount being billed now puts you into higher charge bands than you would have been in if the readings had been taken. If this is the case you could argue that you want them to re-calculate the amount owed by spreading the excess amount over the whole period when readings weren't taken. Worth a try.

Warwick

Clio
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Postby Clio » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:09 pm

Thanks Warwick. Lucid and helpful as ever.

Kilkis
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Postby Kilkis » Sat May 25, 2013 11:13 am

I have now had the opportunity to check an electricity bill against the information published by ΔΕΗ. In case it helps anybody, here is the analysis.

Firstly the links on the UK version of the web site are not correct so it is necessary to use the Greek links. This is no big loss since the links on the English pages go to Greek tables. Use http://www.dei.gr/Default.aspx?id=30818&nt=19&lang=1 The first link is for normal domestic electricity and the second is for off-peak if you have it. I do so I have included it in the explanation below. Just ignore those bits if you don’t have it.

The first calculations at the top of the back page of the bill are for the electricity consumed. These agree with the figures given on the ΔΕΗ tables. In my case I have a fixed charge of €4.80 because I have three phase supply. This would be €1.52 if you have single phase. Next I consumed normal rate electricity of between 801 and 2000 kWh so that consumption is multiplied by 0.0946 €/kWh in accordance with the normal rate table. Next there is a fixed charge of €2 for having night rate electricity and the units consumed at night rate are then multiplied by 0.0661 €/kWh, both in accordance with the night rate table.

The next calculations are the additional costs. These are a little bit complicated since they involve elements that depend on the amount of electricity consumed and elements that depend on the rating of the supply. The latter are quoted in the tables per year so need to be factored for the period covered. This is the sum of the number of days covered by this bill plus the number covered by the previous intermediate bill all divided by 365. You can get the relevant number of days from the council tax calculation. All the information is on the night table where the normal rate figures are repeated and night rate figures added. The following is my case:

ΜΕΤΑΦΟΡΑΣ and ΔΙΑΝΟΜΗΣ are both calculated in the same way and only depend on the normal consumption, i.e. the night rates for these costs are all zero. They also depend on the rating of the supply, however, so the calculation has to be done in two stages. First take the figure in the €/kVA column, e.g. 0.17 in the case of ΜΕΤΑΦΟΡΑΣ, and multiply it by the kVA rating of your supply. This is given in the bottom left hand cell of the table with the actual meter readings at the top left of the bill. Then multiply this figure by the period factor. Next take the kWh consumed at normal rate and multiply it by the figure in the €/kWh column, e.g. 0.00541 in the case of ΜΕΤΑΦΟΡΑΣ. Add the two numbers together and the result should be pretty close to the figure given on the bill. In my case they differ by 10 cents. Repeat the above calculation using the figures given in the ΔΙΑΝΟΜΗΣ section of the ΔΕΗ table. This should be close to the figure on the bill. In my case they differed by about 15 cents. I cannot account for these small differences but it is possible that the number of days used by ΔΕΗ may be slightly different from those to calculate the council tax.

ΩΦΕΛΕΙΑΣ and ΛΟΙΠΕΣ are only calculated from the kWh consumed. In the case of ΛΟΙΠΕΣ there is a single rate so simply multiply this rate, i.e. 0.00046 by the total kWh consumed. For ΩΦΕΛΕΙΑΣ take the normal kWh consumed and multiply it by the €/kWh rate appropriate for the band in which that number of kWh falls. Then multiply the night electricity consumed by the €/kWh figure in the night part of the table. Add these two results together. These figures agreed exactly on my bill.

There is a final calculation, which I think is for pollution, but the details of that are shown on the bill.

Hope this helps.

Warwick

altohb
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Postby altohb » Sat May 25, 2013 11:45 am

Many thanks, Warwick. I can now do the sums with the next "proper" bill when it comes!

Kilkis
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Postby Kilkis » Sat May 25, 2013 12:47 pm

Something was niggling away at me when I was doing this calculation and I suddenly realised what it was. In the past, where the cost per kWh was divided into bands according to how much you had consumed, the bill was also calculated in this way. For example, using the tables found by following the above link, if you consumed 1500 kWh then the first 800 kWh would be charged at 0.07993 €/kWh and the remaining 700 kWh would be charged at 0.0946 €/kWh. Now the whole consumed amount is charged at the rate appropriate to the band in which the consumption lies, i.e. all 1500 kWh would be charged at 0.0946 €/kWh. As far as I can tell this change came in at the end of 2010.

I also had another look at the bill. The number of days used to calculate costs is shown on the front page of the bill and is identical to the sum of the days used to calculate council tax over this and the preceding intermediate bill. Thus I cannot account for the small discrepancies of 10 and 15 cents that I reported in the previous post.

Warwick

scooby

Postby scooby » Sat May 25, 2013 3:05 pm

Don't worry people, when DEH gets in private hands you will be paying a lot more! coming soon to a village near you :lol:

YoMo2
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Postby YoMo2 » Mon May 27, 2013 6:57 pm

I may be wrong, but I have the impression that although the rate per kWh has certainly gone up this year, the actual overall increase is much greater as they have significantly cranked up the charges for ΩΦΕΛΕΙΑΣ and ΛΟΙΠΕΣ. This is stuff like "charge for reducing global emissions" and "social welfare assistance fund".

Stiffing the unsuspecting consumer is what I call it.

Clio
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Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:54 pm

Postby Clio » Mon May 27, 2013 10:20 pm



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