Health matters again

For discussion, news, comments, questions and information about Crete & Greece.
altohb
Posts: 940
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:51 pm
Location: Sitia

Health matters again

Postby altohb » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:28 am

More deluded thinking exposed here -

http://www.enetenglish.gr/?i=news.en.society&id=1288

I would think anyone who still believes that those without health insurance are not suffering terribly needs their head examining!

Pity the reporter couldn't get Zeinab Badawi's sex correct, though! She's one of the best reporters on the BBC at the moment, in my opinion.

Kilkis
Posts: 12417
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Postby Kilkis » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:06 am

Shock horror! Minister lies! The first question I have always been asked when going into any hospital, public or private, is, "What insurance do you have?" To pretend that the state will provide treatment without insurance is a total nonsense. If it did the voluntary clinics would simply not exist.

Don't get too upset about the gender error. It is not really a case of getting the gender wrong, more of mixing up which personal pronoun to use. Although Greek differentiates between genders much more strongly than English when it comes to nouns and adjectives it doesn't differentiate at all for verbs in the third person singular. It is very common for Greeks to mix up he and she even though they know perfectly well that it is a man or woman that they are talking about.

Warwick

altohb
Posts: 940
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:51 pm
Location: Sitia

Postby altohb » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:19 am

I wouldn't be bothered at all by the error regarding the sex of the presenter, Warwick, if it wasn't for the fact that the reporter had obviously watched the programme! Not getting this right seems impolite to me. The level of English used in the report, generally, is quite good, which is why I was surprised at this mistake.

Kilkis
Posts: 12417
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Postby Kilkis » Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:42 am

In my experience there are three areas of English where even Greeks who are fluent in English frequently make mistakes:

1 Numbers. Watch an English programme on Greek TV with Greek subtitles. Whenever a number occurs in the dialogue it is wrong in the Greek translation more often than it is correct.

2 Days of the week, especially Tuesday and Thursday. Make an arrangement to meet someone, e.g. a tradesman to come to the house to do some work, and there is a good chance they will get it wrong. It is worth learning the days in Greek thoroughly and always confirming it in Greek. A typical conversation: "When can you come?. "Tuesday". "Την επόμενη Τρίτη". "Οχι. Την επόμενη Πέμπτη". Considering Item 1 it is also worth confirming the time in Greek.

3 Personal pronouns. It is virtually completely random whether the speaker will get the pronoun gender to match the gender of the person.

Given how widespread these errors are it is a bit crazy to interpret any of them as being "impolite". They are simply mistakes. Everybody makes mistakes. I count myself lucky if someone understands my Greek and never even consider the possibility that it might actually be correct.

Warwick

john4d
Posts: 498
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:13 pm
Location: Near Vamos

Postby john4d » Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:35 am

One of my ex-neighbours in the UK was an elderly Spanish lady, married to an English man and with English children. After40 years she still refers to her own daughter as "he"

People whose native language has a different grammar structure to English find this very difficult. The reverse is true as well, I find Greek Grammar very difficult :?

John
There's no such thing as a bad taste joke

moved 2 crete
Posts: 802
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:37 pm
Location: Kolimbari, Chania

Postby moved 2 crete » Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:47 pm

whenever asking the price of an article, watch out for the Greek tradesman`s understanding of 90 and 19, the teen and ty ending of the number, my plumber quoted me a price of 19 euros for an article, I said OK when he brought it I gave him the 19 euros and he looked perplexed then said drawing in the air with his finger 90 saying enea mithen I was at pains to explain on paper drawing 19 and saying nineteen then drawing 90 and saying ninety, He now understands, both endings are very near to each other and said quickly even by an English person can be easily mistaken.
Dave H

altohb
Posts: 940
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:51 pm
Location: Sitia

Postby altohb » Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:48 pm

Kilkis wrote:In my experience there are three areas of English where even Greeks who are fluent in English frequently make mistakes:

1 Numbers. Watch an English programme on Greek TV with Greek subtitles. Whenever a number occurs in the dialogue it is wrong in the Greek translation more often than it is correct.

2 Days of the week, especially Tuesday and Thursday. Make an arrangement to meet someone, e.g. a tradesman to come to the house to do some work, and there is a good chance they will get it wrong. It is worth learning the days in Greek thoroughly and always confirming it in Greek. A typical conversation: "When can you come?. "Tuesday". "Την επόμενη Τρίτη". "Οχι. Την επόμενη Πέμπτη". Considering Item 1 it is also worth confirming the time in Greek.

3 Personal pronouns. It is virtually completely random whether the speaker will get the pronoun gender to match the gender of the person.

Given how widespread these errors are it is a bit crazy to interpret any of them as being "impolite". They are simply mistakes. Everybody makes mistakes. I count myself lucky if someone understands my Greek and never even consider the possibility that it might actually be correct.

Warwick


1. I've certainly noticed this with the numbers in subtitles - dates & times also, sometimes.

2. I will come on Tuesday/Thursday whatever - which Tuesday/Thursday whatever? Shrug!

3. OK - I give in - stupid mistake, not rudeness. However, the use of he/she in speech is one thing, (and yes, we all make mistakes in both our own languages and others) but in print in an otherwise well constructed and articulate article seems sloppy to me, but what do I know? Maybe the sub editor needs one of those pens under discussion in the Slobbovia section! I understand perfectly the way in which Greek grammar doesn't allow for the sex of the person being spoken about to be directly inferred.

Gender, by the way, is a grammatical construct or a way of describing social position. The WHO gives a good definition of the difference between the use of the words sex and gender. I think we all got very prissy some time ago and started using "gender" indiscriminately.

http://www.who.int/gender/whatisgender/en/ gives a good definition of the difference in meanings.

Kilkis
Posts: 12417
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Postby Kilkis » Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:34 pm

altohb wrote:...I think we all got very prissy some time ago and started using "gender" indiscriminately...


I am not sure of your point here? Every grammar book that I have ever read uses the term "gender" not the term "sex". I am not sure of the relevance of WHO when it comes to discussing grammar?

Warwick

Clio
Posts: 1641
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:54 pm

Postby Clio » Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:13 pm

I am not sure of the relevance of WHO when it comes to discussing grammar?


Since we are completely off-topic: The Who IS very relevant to discussing the difference between the genders. Who can forget the immortal “I’m a Boy”.....


I wanna play cricket on the green
Ride my bike across the stream
Cut myself and see my blood
I wanna come home all covered in mud

Sorry. It's been that kind of day.

Tim
Posts: 649
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:41 pm
Location: Near Sitia
Contact:

Postby Tim » Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:36 pm

An interesting choice of illustration, Clio, especially as that particular track is about a boy whose parents are trying to bring him up as a girl and refuse to accept he's a boy!

I suppose, even in English, they'd refer to him as 'she'.

Tim

Kilkis
Posts: 12417
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Postby Kilkis » Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:14 pm

For those too young to remember: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4_eSW6D6sc

Warwick

altohb
Posts: 940
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:51 pm
Location: Sitia

Postby altohb » Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:21 pm

Kilkis wrote:
altohb wrote:...I think we all got very prissy some time ago and started using "gender" indiscriminately...


I am not sure of your point here? Every grammar book that I have ever read uses the term "gender" not the term "sex". I am not sure of the relevance of WHO when it comes to discussing grammar?

Warwick


Precisely - when talking about grammar, then "gender" is correct; when talking about people it isn't.

Tim
Posts: 649
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:41 pm
Location: Near Sitia
Contact:

Postby Tim » Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:42 pm

Kilkis wrote:For those too young to remember: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4_eSW6D6sc

Warwick


Trying to picture you as a Mod, Warwick. Vespa scooter festooned with wing mirrors, light green parka with a target painted on the back ...... !!

Tim

Kilkis
Posts: 12417
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Postby Kilkis » Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:03 am

Lambretta, normal number of mirrors and no target. Boring as ever. I can't really claim to be either a mod or a rocker. I rode a scooter but really wanted a Norton SS 600. I preferred the Stones to the Beatles but by far preferred pre-war jazz and blues. Only went to Brighton once and that was for a university entrance interview not an Easter punch up.

Warwick

PS Just bought a Honda CBF 600 S so I guess our preferences don't change that much

fuzer
Posts: 867
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:42 am
Location: North East Crete near Sitia

Postby fuzer » Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:18 am

We - 6 of us - were in our local Taverna, had a great evening, 7.30 til midnight. All had loads to drink. Asked for bill - actual bill was 19 Euro - we put down 90 Euro, while looking for the tip manolis said - "what you doing, is 19....nine..teeen.... not 90, you think I think you are rich" !!!!!
The point is that we thought 90 Euro was not too far over the top and were willing to pay it.
ALWAYS FINISH WHAT YOU STAR


Return to “General Discussion & News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 38 guests