More deluded thinking exposed here -
http://www.enetenglish.gr/?i=news.en.society&id=1288
I would think anyone who still believes that those without health insurance are not suffering terribly needs their head examining!
Pity the reporter couldn't get Zeinab Badawi's sex correct, though! She's one of the best reporters on the BBC at the moment, in my opinion.
Health matters again
Shock horror! Minister lies! The first question I have always been asked when going into any hospital, public or private, is, "What insurance do you have?" To pretend that the state will provide treatment without insurance is a total nonsense. If it did the voluntary clinics would simply not exist.
Don't get too upset about the gender error. It is not really a case of getting the gender wrong, more of mixing up which personal pronoun to use. Although Greek differentiates between genders much more strongly than English when it comes to nouns and adjectives it doesn't differentiate at all for verbs in the third person singular. It is very common for Greeks to mix up he and she even though they know perfectly well that it is a man or woman that they are talking about.
Warwick
Don't get too upset about the gender error. It is not really a case of getting the gender wrong, more of mixing up which personal pronoun to use. Although Greek differentiates between genders much more strongly than English when it comes to nouns and adjectives it doesn't differentiate at all for verbs in the third person singular. It is very common for Greeks to mix up he and she even though they know perfectly well that it is a man or woman that they are talking about.
Warwick
I wouldn't be bothered at all by the error regarding the sex of the presenter, Warwick, if it wasn't for the fact that the reporter had obviously watched the programme! Not getting this right seems impolite to me. The level of English used in the report, generally, is quite good, which is why I was surprised at this mistake.
In my experience there are three areas of English where even Greeks who are fluent in English frequently make mistakes:
1 Numbers. Watch an English programme on Greek TV with Greek subtitles. Whenever a number occurs in the dialogue it is wrong in the Greek translation more often than it is correct.
2 Days of the week, especially Tuesday and Thursday. Make an arrangement to meet someone, e.g. a tradesman to come to the house to do some work, and there is a good chance they will get it wrong. It is worth learning the days in Greek thoroughly and always confirming it in Greek. A typical conversation: "When can you come?. "Tuesday". "Την επόμενη Τρίτη". "Οχι. Την επόμενη Πέμπτη". Considering Item 1 it is also worth confirming the time in Greek.
3 Personal pronouns. It is virtually completely random whether the speaker will get the pronoun gender to match the gender of the person.
Given how widespread these errors are it is a bit crazy to interpret any of them as being "impolite". They are simply mistakes. Everybody makes mistakes. I count myself lucky if someone understands my Greek and never even consider the possibility that it might actually be correct.
Warwick
1 Numbers. Watch an English programme on Greek TV with Greek subtitles. Whenever a number occurs in the dialogue it is wrong in the Greek translation more often than it is correct.
2 Days of the week, especially Tuesday and Thursday. Make an arrangement to meet someone, e.g. a tradesman to come to the house to do some work, and there is a good chance they will get it wrong. It is worth learning the days in Greek thoroughly and always confirming it in Greek. A typical conversation: "When can you come?. "Tuesday". "Την επόμενη Τρίτη". "Οχι. Την επόμενη Πέμπτη". Considering Item 1 it is also worth confirming the time in Greek.
3 Personal pronouns. It is virtually completely random whether the speaker will get the pronoun gender to match the gender of the person.
Given how widespread these errors are it is a bit crazy to interpret any of them as being "impolite". They are simply mistakes. Everybody makes mistakes. I count myself lucky if someone understands my Greek and never even consider the possibility that it might actually be correct.
Warwick
One of my ex-neighbours in the UK was an elderly Spanish lady, married to an English man and with English children. After40 years she still refers to her own daughter as "he"
People whose native language has a different grammar structure to English find this very difficult. The reverse is true as well, I find Greek Grammar very difficult
John
People whose native language has a different grammar structure to English find this very difficult. The reverse is true as well, I find Greek Grammar very difficult
John
There's no such thing as a bad taste joke
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whenever asking the price of an article, watch out for the Greek tradesman`s understanding of 90 and 19, the teen and ty ending of the number, my plumber quoted me a price of 19 euros for an article, I said OK when he brought it I gave him the 19 euros and he looked perplexed then said drawing in the air with his finger 90 saying enea mithen I was at pains to explain on paper drawing 19 and saying nineteen then drawing 90 and saying ninety, He now understands, both endings are very near to each other and said quickly even by an English person can be easily mistaken.
Dave H
Kilkis wrote:In my experience there are three areas of English where even Greeks who are fluent in English frequently make mistakes:
1 Numbers. Watch an English programme on Greek TV with Greek subtitles. Whenever a number occurs in the dialogue it is wrong in the Greek translation more often than it is correct.
2 Days of the week, especially Tuesday and Thursday. Make an arrangement to meet someone, e.g. a tradesman to come to the house to do some work, and there is a good chance they will get it wrong. It is worth learning the days in Greek thoroughly and always confirming it in Greek. A typical conversation: "When can you come?. "Tuesday". "Την επόμενη Τρίτη". "Οχι. Την επόμενη Πέμπτη". Considering Item 1 it is also worth confirming the time in Greek.
3 Personal pronouns. It is virtually completely random whether the speaker will get the pronoun gender to match the gender of the person.
Given how widespread these errors are it is a bit crazy to interpret any of them as being "impolite". They are simply mistakes. Everybody makes mistakes. I count myself lucky if someone understands my Greek and never even consider the possibility that it might actually be correct.
Warwick
1. I've certainly noticed this with the numbers in subtitles - dates & times also, sometimes.
2. I will come on Tuesday/Thursday whatever - which Tuesday/Thursday whatever? Shrug!
3. OK - I give in - stupid mistake, not rudeness. However, the use of he/she in speech is one thing, (and yes, we all make mistakes in both our own languages and others) but in print in an otherwise well constructed and articulate article seems sloppy to me, but what do I know? Maybe the sub editor needs one of those pens under discussion in the Slobbovia section! I understand perfectly the way in which Greek grammar doesn't allow for the sex of the person being spoken about to be directly inferred.
Gender, by the way, is a grammatical construct or a way of describing social position. The WHO gives a good definition of the difference between the use of the words sex and gender. I think we all got very prissy some time ago and started using "gender" indiscriminately.
http://www.who.int/gender/whatisgender/en/ gives a good definition of the difference in meanings.
altohb wrote:...I think we all got very prissy some time ago and started using "gender" indiscriminately...
I am not sure of your point here? Every grammar book that I have ever read uses the term "gender" not the term "sex". I am not sure of the relevance of WHO when it comes to discussing grammar?
Warwick
I am not sure of the relevance of WHO when it comes to discussing grammar?
Since we are completely off-topic: The Who IS very relevant to discussing the difference between the genders. Who can forget the immortal “I’m a Boy”.....
I wanna play cricket on the green
Ride my bike across the stream
Cut myself and see my blood
I wanna come home all covered in mud
Sorry. It's been that kind of day.
Kilkis wrote:altohb wrote:...I think we all got very prissy some time ago and started using "gender" indiscriminately...
I am not sure of your point here? Every grammar book that I have ever read uses the term "gender" not the term "sex". I am not sure of the relevance of WHO when it comes to discussing grammar?
Warwick
Precisely - when talking about grammar, then "gender" is correct; when talking about people it isn't.
Lambretta, normal number of mirrors and no target. Boring as ever. I can't really claim to be either a mod or a rocker. I rode a scooter but really wanted a Norton SS 600. I preferred the Stones to the Beatles but by far preferred pre-war jazz and blues. Only went to Brighton once and that was for a university entrance interview not an Easter punch up.
Warwick
PS Just bought a Honda CBF 600 S so I guess our preferences don't change that much
Warwick
PS Just bought a Honda CBF 600 S so I guess our preferences don't change that much
We - 6 of us - were in our local Taverna, had a great evening, 7.30 til midnight. All had loads to drink. Asked for bill - actual bill was 19 Euro - we put down 90 Euro, while looking for the tip manolis said - "what you doing, is 19....nine..teeen.... not 90, you think I think you are rich" !!!!!
The point is that we thought 90 Euro was not too far over the top and were willing to pay it.
The point is that we thought 90 Euro was not too far over the top and were willing to pay it.
ALWAYS FINISH WHAT YOU STAR
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