Greek Banks

For discussion, news, comments, questions and information about Crete & Greece.
peebee
Posts: 640
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 5:07 am
Location: Kalyves

Re: Greek Banks

Postby peebee » Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:36 pm

Went into Piraeus Bank in Vamos today to get my `pink slips', only a few minutes wait to be seen, but they are now charging a €10 commission for issuing them.

Dinksy
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:06 am
Location: Drapanos

Re: Greek Banks

Postby Dinksy » Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:51 pm

I may have missed this earlier but for couples with joint bank accounts the weekly limit is twice the €420 currently available as cash.

The maximum daily amount for a debit card is €600 and again this is doubled if both parties have a their own debit card.

This could help if cash is a problem.
Never mind the quality, feel the width.

bobscott
Posts: 2066
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:36 pm
Location: Kokkino Horio

Re: Greek Banks

Postby bobscott » Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:43 pm

We are not tax resident in Crete, and used to collect Pink slips. Since we started internet banking with Alpha, all I do now is print off the information for each incoming transfer which shows where it came from, how much, conversion to euros, date etc. Accountant once said that this printout from the bank website was not valid, but as I don't have to produce them anyway, and only do so as a 'courtesy' , I don't worry about that. Been doing it for about the last 6 or 7 years. So far no problem. A €10 charge sounds ridiculous!
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

mouche
Posts: 555
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:43 pm

Re: Greek Banks

Postby mouche » Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:33 pm

Never been asked for a pink slip. Not heard of anybody else in our area who have been asked for same. All non tax residents but with tax number, owned house, car etc.

Kilkis
Posts: 8775
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Greek Banks

Postby Kilkis » Tue Apr 19, 2016 9:16 pm

mouche wrote:Never been asked for a pink slip. Not heard of anybody else in our area who have been asked for same. All non tax residents but with tax number, owned house, car etc.


Pink slips used to be a requirement for all non-tax residents. The imputed income rules used to apply to non-tax residents. Thus for every applicable thing you own, e.g. property, car, pool, boat, plane etc, the Greek tax authority would assign you an income. They would add this up to derive a total imputed income. If you couldn't prove that you had brought this amount of money to Greece, by providing pink slips, then you would be deemed to have earned this amount in Greece and be taxed accordingly. I can well believe you were never asked for them, Mouche, but would you have been able to provide them if you were asked? Typically I am never asked to provide proof of the purchase receipts I collect. I tell my accountant the total amount and he enters that on my tax return. A few years ago I was forced to undergo a full tax audit and then I had to supply them. It is pretty normal for all tax authorities to take declarations on trust but sometimes ask for proof. It is pretty rare for a tax authority to ask for proof of every item on every declaration. When doing your tax return did your accountant ask you how much money you had transferred to Greece that year?

For people who are tax resident the rules were a little different. You had to declare your world-wide income here. Your imputed income was still assessed. If your declared income was more than the imputed income you were taxed on your declared income. If the declared income was less than the imputed income then you were taxed on the imputed income. So far my declared income has always been more than my imputed income so I have been taxed on that. Tax residents could not use pink slips.

The rules were changed last year or the year before for non-tax residents. I believe nobody can use pink slips now except in the first couple of years after you move here. Now if you are non-tax resident and have no income in Greece then the imputed income does not apply to you. If, however you have any income at all in Greece then the imputed income does apply and you are supposed to declare your worldwide income here. Obviously if that income is taxed elsewhere and you are subject to a double taxation agreement and you can get proof of that from the other country you wouldn't pay tax on it here. As far as I can see anybody who has a bank account here has some income in Greece because all accounts pay some interest, however small. I don't know the tax authorities attitude to that because I am tax resident.

All the above applies to normal annual income. I still think it would be wise to get pink slips for major purchases when first coming to Greece, e.g. property, car etc.

Warwick

bobscott
Posts: 2066
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:36 pm
Location: Kokkino Horio

Re: Greek Banks

Postby bobscott » Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:17 am

Kilkis wrote: As far as I can see anybody who has a bank account here has some income in Greece because all accounts pay some interest, however small. I don't know the tax authorities attitude to that because I am tax resident. Warwick



Never been asked about bank account interest on our Alpha bank accounts Warwick. In any case, it usually amounts to about €0.03 pa of which €0.01 is deducted as 'tax'! Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

Kilkis
Posts: 8775
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Greek Banks

Postby Kilkis » Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:04 am

I agree that the interest is extremely small and it is taxed at source. I think technically we are supposed to declare it on our tax returns but nobody does because it would be ludicrous. For those of us who are tax resident here it doesn't really matter. We have already paid the income tax due on it and if it was added to the solidarity tax assessment it wouldn't even add 1 cent. Anybody who received a large amount of interest would potentially have problems if they didn't declare it.

Despite the above, I think there has been one member of the forum who, some time ago, reported that he had been told that, even though he was not tax resident in Greece, he would have to declare his UK income here because he had income in Greece. The income was simply bank interest of a few Euro. That would mean he would have to get double taxation forms for his UK income or it would be taxed here. I think he even asked his bank if he could have an account that paid no interest but was told that it wasn't possible.

Some people seem happy to take the attitude that, "Nobody told me to do that so I'm not bothered". Personally I prefer to understand everything about the system that is relevant to me. I assess my own tax liability here, using the Greek tax code, and check it against what the tax authority demands. From experience in the UK, I never once received a correct tax assessment. Every year I challenged it and got a reduction. I don't think the Greek tax system is likely to be any better. Everybody has their own way of doing things.

Warwick

mouche
Posts: 555
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:43 pm

Re: Greek Banks

Postby mouche » Wed Apr 20, 2016 7:01 pm

Kilkis wrote:
mouche wrote:Never been asked for a pink slip. Not heard of anybody else in our area who have been asked for same. All non tax residents but with tax number, owned house, car etc.


I can well believe you were never asked for them, Mouche, but would you have been able to provide them if you were asked?



I can prove transfer of a considerable amount of money over the last five years as we bought/built the house we own and all funds were remitted from Norway into our Greek bank account and transferred from this account to the seller/builder by our lawyer against our written authorization to him. Not sure if thus
is answers your question?

Kilkis
Posts: 8775
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Greek Banks

Postby Kilkis » Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:17 am

Normally, when you purchase a property you have to show the purchase price of that property on the next E1 form submitted to the tax office. A little later you submit an E9 form giving the details of the property. I would have expected you to be asked for pink slips when you submitted the E1 showing the purchase. Since you weren't I would guess there isn't a problem but I am not sure if the tax authorities ever look back in time or what would cause them to do so. Because I was working in Greece and tax-resident in Greece I could not use pink slips to justify my land purchase. Fortunately the income declared on previous E1 forms over several years was high enough and the objective value of the land, as shown on the contract, was low enough that they deemed I could have saved enough to have bought it out of my declared earnings.

If, like me, you bought land and built a house on it, I am not sure what you are supposed to do about the money paid to the builder? Obviously you still submit the E1 showing the land purchase but whether you are supposed to show payments to the builder on subsequent E1 forms I honestly don't know.

Warwick

mouche
Posts: 555
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:43 pm

Re: Greek Banks

Postby mouche » Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:41 pm

Our lawyer in Crete since five years has never even seen the purchase contract for our house nor have we ever presented or been ask to present any proof whatsoever. This also goes for all the neighbors I personally know in our area, but then again I might be all wrong and you perfect correct!

Kilkis
Posts: 8775
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Greek Banks

Postby Kilkis » Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:59 pm

But presumably your accountant did submit an E1 form to the tax authority informing them of the fact that you now own a property and what the purchase price was, plus the amount of taxes and notary fee paid, and also an E9 form giving the details of the property? To the best of my knowledge that is certainly a requirement of Greek tax law and applies whether you are tax resident or not.

Warwick

mouche
Posts: 555
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:43 pm

Re: Greek Banks

Postby mouche » Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:07 pm

Nope! Neither our lawyer nor the accountant have any knowledge about the purchase contract nor the purchase price! Same with all our neighbors and friends in the area.

Kilkis
Posts: 8775
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Greek Banks

Postby Kilkis » Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:04 pm

Well, I seem to recall in an earlier post you said you didn't believe in obeying the law anywhere so I suppose that fits. Personally, I do believe in obeying the law. I don't claim to be perfect but at least I make some effort.

Warwick

Mixos
Posts: 352
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:26 am
Location: North East Crete or S.W.England

Re: Greek Banks

Postby Mixos » Fri Apr 22, 2016 10:16 am

I hope we all try to do that, Warwick, in spite of the braggadocio we sometimes read on this forum! The problem, it seems to me, is that for every accountant and solicitor in Crete there is a different version of the rules that we are obliged to obey -- and these rules seem to change every year anyway -- so how is anyone supposed to know if they are doing the "right" thing?

I think it was me you referred to ( on Wednesday, above,) being told to declare my Greek "income" to avoid double taxation. That was actually less than "a few" euros last year -- precisely 98 cents -- which I religiously declared on both my Greek and UK tax returns, accompanied by a Declaration of UK Fiscal Residence to avoid the double tax trap, and I will go on doing that until my accountant(s) tell me the rules have changed again. It is extremely tedious but such is life in Greece, is it not?

However, I know of many other ex-pats with a very different story to tell. At one extreme, some are "below the radar" and appear to rub along in Crete without ever having to produce any paperwork to anybody. At the other end, I know some non-tax residents who have to produce translated apostille stamps on everything to satisfy their accountants. Why does this happen? Is it because individual accountants interpret the same rules differently? Is it because they themselves don't really understand what is required? Are some of the tax office staff (heaven forbid) happy to pass some accounts in return for a brown "fakelaki?" Who knows?

All I can say is that I agree with you that we should at least try to obey the law, but it would help enormously if the government/banks/tax authority would decide the laws and stick to them. Then we could too.

mouche
Posts: 555
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:43 pm

Re: Greek Banks

Postby mouche » Fri Apr 22, 2016 10:49 am

Kilkis wrote:Well, I seem to recall in an earlier post you said you didn't believe in obeying the law anywhere so I suppose that fits. Personally, I do believe in obeying the law. I don't claim to be perfect but at least I make some effort.

Warwick


AD HOMINEM! And yes, you are close to perfect at that!


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