Greece Referendum

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Referendum

Poll ended at Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:05 am

I believe the Greek government should accept the terms of the ultimatum issued by the creditors
8
19%
I believe the Greek government should reject the terms of the ultimatum issued by the creditors
35
81%
 
Total votes: 43

PDJ
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Location: Akrotiri sometimes

Re: Greece Referendum

Postby PDJ » Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:43 pm

Although slightly left of centre, I enjoy this man's insight into the current events:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PY-qp9egjtk

scooby
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Location: Agia Nr Chania

Re: Greece Referendum

Postby scooby » Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:51 am

Topdriller wrote:Just after Alexis Tsipras made his pitch to the European Parliament, he was rebuked in furious fashion by Guy Verhofstadt, the president of the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe.

"Show you are a real leader and not a false prophet," he told Mr Tsipras.

What he said to Tsipras was 100% correct! These things MUST change whether Greece remains in or leaves the EU.

http://youtu.be/P84tN0z4jqM

Jon
Reply:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ih-OGXesJqg
Men in suits will always make you pay.

scooby
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Location: Agia Nr Chania

Re: Greece Referendum

Postby scooby » Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:43 am

Very interesting interview with Tsipras 2 years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PelAe0xrIL4
Men in suits will always make you pay.

filippos
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Re: Greece Referendum

Postby filippos » Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:28 am

Topdriller wrote:............... that the Greeks as a people don't always think ahead or fully consider consequences. ...........
That's by no means an exclusively Greek trait. If I'd collected £10 for every time I've thought of, read about or seen "unintended consequences" during my lifetime I'd probably be a multi-millionaire. I've often thought, "People just don't think": why should Greeks be any different? Some of the worst offenders are politicians.

Often, the results can be amusing: sadly, in the current Greek situation they're likely to be catastrophic for the country.

Topdriller
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Re: Greece Referendum

Postby Topdriller » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:38 am

When all else fails send in Dora!

"There is concern among opposition parties in Greece that Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras may not be willing to do what it takes to reach a deal with creditors.

New Democracy leader Evangelos Meimarakis has sent two of the parties senior politicians, former ministers Dora Bakoyannis and Costis Hatzidakis, to Brussels to monitor the talks.

"In Brussels to strengthen the national effort," Ms Bakoyannis tweets."

Jon
We need men who dream of things that never were.

Topdriller
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Re: Greece Referendum

Postby Topdriller » Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:22 pm

Phillip,

Some years ago I was in the car with a Greek friend and we watched as some idiot drove straight through a Stop sign and nearly mowed down a motorbike coming the other way.

I asked him, "Why do Greeks consistently ignore Stop signs?"

Smiling, he turned to me and replied, "If it said Stop Manolis or Stop Dimitri and that was their name then they'd probably stop but since it doesn't, they don't..."

Jon
We need men who dream of things that never were.

Kilkis
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Re: Greece Referendum

Postby Kilkis » Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:26 pm

I think Guy Verhofstadt laid out extremely accurately what Syriza must do. If the ND/PASOK coalition had carried out that type of reform Greece would be in a better state today. They didn't because the things Guy said need changing are the foundations of their parties.

The only thing that will rescue Greece is total structural reform with no exceptions made. If that isn't done it doesn't really matter whether it gets a new deal or not it will still fail the Greek people. Syriza have the political mandate to do it. They have no historical baggage from having governed and contributed to the problem that can hold them back. I am not convinced they have the political will. Θα δούμε.

Warwick

Topdriller
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Re: Greece Referendum

Postby Topdriller » Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:34 pm

Exactly. Warwick,

Jon
We need men who dream of things that never were.

filippos
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Re: Greece Referendum

Postby filippos » Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:57 pm

Topdriller wrote:.......... Smiling, he turned to me and replied, "If it said Stop Manolis ......
And you've never heard a quip like that anywhere else, ever? I'm amazed.

Topdriller
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Re: Greece Referendum

Postby Topdriller » Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:00 pm

filippos wrote:And you've never heard a quip like that anywhere else, ever? I'm amazed.


I obviously don't have your depth of experience and all seeing wisdom, Phillip.

Note to self, must try better..

Jon
We need men who dream of things that never were.

filippos
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Re: Greece Referendum

Postby filippos » Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:02 pm

Kilkis wrote:I think Guy Verhofstadt laid out extremely accurately what Syriza must do............... Syriza have the political mandate to do it.
Precisely ..... and AT's response wasn't very convincing.

SatCure
Posts: 1910
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Location: Apokoronas

Re: Greece Referendum

Postby SatCure » Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:51 pm

This page is a convenient place to get links to the latest news:
http://www.newsnow.co.uk/h/World+News/E ... ern/Greece

This page explains exactly what is going on. Be sure to watch the video at the bottom. It's already happening to the UK, just more subtly. Nobody is safe.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/greece-the ... ia/5460508

scooby
Posts: 1096
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Re: Greece Referendum

Postby scooby » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:30 pm

Kilkis wrote:I think Guy Verhofstadt laid out extremely accurately what Syriza must do. If the ND/PASOK coalition had carried out that type of reform Greece would be in a better state today. They didn't because the things Guy said need changing are the foundations of their parties.

The only thing that will rescue Greece is total structural reform with no exceptions made. If that isn't done it doesn't really matter whether it gets a new deal or not it will still fail the Greek people. Syriza have the political mandate to do it. They have no historical baggage from having governed and contributed to the problem that can hold them back. I am not convinced they have the political will. Θα δούμε.

Warwick
The problem for me Warwick is that when the EU talk about "reform" it's just a fancy word for cuts. It's like when HSBC for example say they are "re structuring" it just means we are going to fire a few thousand people. If you watched the link I provided of Tsipras 2 years ago he touched on the public sector and how it needs proper reform and not EU reform. i am still a firm believer, the banks got us into this mess and now they have to get us out of it, not the ordinary folk on the street.
Men in suits will always make you pay.

Clio
Posts: 1461
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:54 pm

Re: Greece Referendum

Postby Clio » Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:28 pm

The only thing that will rescue Greece is total structural reform with no exceptions made. If that isn't done it doesn't really matter whether it gets a new deal or not it will still fail the Greek people. Syriza have the political mandate to do it. They have no historical baggage from having governed and contributed to the problem that can hold them back. I am not convinced they have the political will.


One thing nobody has mentioned: the transforming effect which the Internet has had on Greek society, particularly on the outlook and understanding of young Greeks. Thanks to blogs, alternative news sites and social networking, the twenty and thirty-year-olds I know - mostly teachers and IT professionals, and all Syriza voters - are as aware of and cynical about the Byzantine practices of previous generations of politicians as are we. And as committed to the idea of root-and-branch restructuring. Also to concepts like accountability and transparency, two of the the building blocks of modern governance and which are the antithesis of the ND/Pasok MO,
Eventually, even if not just yet, the young are going to get the chance, because the old guard still jockeying for power - the Doras and, snuffling around there somewhere looking for a new trough in which to bury his snout, Venizelos - are dinosaurs, their darkened-room dealings now routinely subject to scrutiny and challenge in the online counter-culture, if not yet in the Greek mainstream media.
On referendum night, I asked two young Greek friends to say which portfolio they'd choose if they were in the new government. "Environment" said Nikos promptly.. "The Greeks are the worst in the world for destroying the planet, through ignorance and greed. We need education about protecting the environment, about recycling, about sustainability. We need to plan for the energy needs of the future and to think carefully and sensitively how those energy sources can avoid damaging our atmosphere and our landscape."
He would have gone on, but I stopped him in order to ask Evie which ministry she'd bag. "Waste!". "But doesn't that come under Nikos' wing?"
"No, the kind off waste I mean, is the loss of huge amounts of public money through corruption and stupidity and ignorance. Take paper." (I should add that after being out of work for two years, Evie now works for a public organisation.) "There is enough paper in our building, there are cupboards and rooms filled with paper, to meet our needs for 100 years. Or to keep every public office in the city going for the future.
"I want to find out who was responsible for this crazy ordering, whether itt was just laziness or a stupid mistake, or more likely because that person was well paid by the supplier.
"And I would have a big investigation into the purchase of our computer ystem - from a gvernment supporter who runs one of Greece's largest electronics companies - which has neither internet or intranet faclities, so there can be no sharing of records between departments. Just think how much the country could save if we introduce ideas like efficiency and accountability into the public sector".
This was in a mixture of Greek and English so I've paraphrased, but I hope you get the gist. And find it encouraging.

mouche
Posts: 560
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:43 pm

Re: Greece Referendum

Postby mouche » Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:12 pm

Indeed encouraging to read and it also shows that Greece and the greeks themselves are to a large extend to blame for the situation they are in! Unless, and until, the majority of the people realize this rather than to blame their misfortunes on Adolf Hitler and French/German banks nothing will change. I am also really surprised to see all the comments on this forum appearently putting the blame, or at least most of it, on anything and anobody but Greece and the greeks themselves! The same people seem to totally forget and ignore that the politicians previousely in charge were all elected thru a democratic process.


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