The End Game

For discussion, news, comments, questions and information about Crete & Greece.
Carolina
Site Admin
Posts: 2856
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 11:53 pm
Location: Chania, Crete
Contact:

The End Game

Postby Carolina » Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:57 am

Oppositions leaders in Brussels meeting with Junker. Varoufakis in Greek Parliament today pictured laughing with Tsakalotos (still part of the game plan, is there another twist to come?), rumours that Tsipras will be forced to resign... and if this is the correct ('leaked') proposal then it is clear why Varoufakis already resigned:

http://www.naftemporiki.gr/finance/stor ... -proposals

Not looking good katholou.

Clio
Posts: 1457
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:54 pm

Re: The End Game

Postby Clio » Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:01 am

It gives me no pleasure to agree with you, Carol. I'd like to think the fat lady is still to sing, but from here it feels more like Gotterdammerung.

SatCure
Posts: 1890
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:57 pm
Location: Apokoronas

Re: The End Game

Postby SatCure » Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:45 am

Here we go. Selling off all of Greece's major money-making assets:

take irreversible steps to privatize the electricity transmission company,

complete all government pending actions including those needed for the regional airports, TRAINOSE, Egnatia, the ports of Pireaus and Thessaloniki and Hellinikon

The government will transfer the state's shares in OTE to the HRADF


Why does this matter? See
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVsB07CcSNw

BST
Posts: 319
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:29 pm

Re: The End Game

Postby BST » Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:42 am

Well there's really no point Greece having a Government, which represents the Greek people. Merkel might as well just send her own mob over her. :(

Kilkis
Posts: 8776
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: The End Game

Postby Kilkis » Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:37 pm

Brian Rix would have been proud to be associated with the acts played out in the last six months.

Warwick

Kilkis
Posts: 8776
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: The End Game

Postby Kilkis » Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:04 pm

Graphic here on where the creditors stand: https://twitter.com/Schuldensuehner/sta ... 0156255232

Pretty much as expected?

Warwick

Brian
Posts: 130
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 11:21 pm

Re: The End Game

Postby Brian » Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:07 pm

I wish some of the contributors on here would try to face reality - just once.
The greeks got themselves into this mire. They are the ones who voted for these corrupt parties over the decades. I have some experience of Greece, no body will pay tax. The middle class blame the elite, the working man blames the middle class. The brown envelope is the lubricant of commerce. They ask why should we pay tax when everybody else avoids it - so the merry-go-round continues. Of course time eventually caught up with the greek people, in the form of their creditors. The greeks got two bailouts which should have kick-started the economy if the country was half governed. Of course this was a joke in Greece. Various administrations saw the bailouts as Manna from Heaven. They looked after their cronies, the privileged classes (Politicians, military, Greek church etc) and to hell with the country and their obligations and responsibilities.
I said earlier that Syriza and Tsipras were totally incompetent and amateurish. This has been proven time and again since the attained power at beginning of the year. Of course you have people on here still trumpeting Tsipras's brilliance. He is a disaster he called a referendum on the previous proposals and went to the country in the shape of a referendum and recommended a no vote which he duly won. One week on he is proposing to accept tougher proposals! In the two weeks since the referendum was called the country has nearly spiralled out of control and will now take much longer and at greater cost (socially and financially) to recover and yet Tsipras has nearly attained Iconic status on this forum.
Me thinks their are a lot of people who voted No in this forum's poll who are praying that the third bailout is accepted, but it seems to be cooler to be in the No camp and not rock the boat.

Maud
Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:46 pm
Location: S.W. England/ S.W. Crete.

Re: The End Game

Postby Maud » Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:21 pm

At least we all had a laugh at Brian Rix! Most Greeks will be crying when they realise what these measures are going to mean for them on a day to day basis......let alone long term.

There was never going to be a good outcome for the Greeks in this, but the farce of the last six months is unbelievable.......let alone the costs involved of meetings etc. - More money wasted.

Re your post Brian, I guess the Greek people wanted change, and Tsipras offered them that. I think everyone hoped he could work a miracle, but it was never going to happen. It still amazes me that the majority of Greeks expected Tsipras to say "no" to the demands, yet wanted to stay in the E.U. - 'Cake and eat it' comes to mind!

Maud.

Kilkis
Posts: 8776
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: The End Game

Postby Kilkis » Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:46 pm

Tell me Brian, who else was there to vote for? When the whole political class is corrupt how do you elect a non-corrupt government? Also drop the stereotypes.

I and every salaried person in Greece pays their tax including all public servants. They have no choice. It is deducted from salaries at source exactly like PAYE in the UK. Tax evasion is predominantly among big business who are protected by the politicians, again exactly like the UK. A significant proportion of tax evasion amongst private traders happens because they know if they submit a correct tax return the tax inspectors will simply arbitrarily increase the tax owed. They take their discount so when it is inflated they finish up paying the correct tax. Tax evasion certainly occurs but it is predominately amongst the rich. I'm not saying it doesn't exist and needs to be stamped out but don't present it as every Greek.

I don't know anybody personally who has ever paid with a brown envelope. I and my wife used the Greek healthcare system extensively, both public and private, which is one area where it is supposed to be most prevalent, and we were never asked for any bribe. It was more common to be charged reduced rates or let off some payments. Again it occurs but it is not as widespread as claimed. Again it needs stamping out but don't blame all Greeks.

While Greece's debt problem was initially built up over years by corrupt incompetent governments of both left and right it has been exacerbated by the imposition of solutions, by a morally superior group of creditors, that would never work. The underlying problem is that a common currency totally destroys the market mechanism that removes trade imbalances and nothing has been done to replace it. The disease infects the whole of the Eurozone. Greece just happens to be where the boil erupted. Even if they lance that boil the infection will remain to erupt somewhere else.

Syriza are like the curate's egg. They completely accurately diagnosed what was wrong with the Greek bailout programme even though the creditors still won't accept that diagnosis. They spoke the unspeakable. They promised something that was blatantly unachievable. They have been incompetent in negotiation. Kick Syriza out and you go back to corrupt incompetent government of the old cadres. I have no idealogical sympathy with Syriza whatsoever but they are the only hope of implementing the reforms that are necessary because they are the only ones who don't have a vested interest in the existing arrangements. It is possible that there is no hope for Greece with Syriza but there is less hope without them.

Warwick

bobscott
Posts: 2066
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:36 pm
Location: Kokkino Horio

Re: The End Game

Postby bobscott » Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:55 pm

Spot on Warwick.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

Clio
Posts: 1457
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:54 pm

Re: The End Game

Postby Clio » Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:20 pm

A small cheer for private enterprise:

http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2015/0 ... f-justice/

Whoever drafted and submitted this obviously has a brilliant brain, and is probably not the No 1 Fan of the ECB. Perhaps we should nominate him or her for the post of FinMin, |Unless of course he/she already is or, rather, was until recently.....

Clio
Posts: 1457
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:54 pm

Re: The End Game

Postby Clio » Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:33 pm

Tell me Brian, who else was there to vote for? When the whole political class is corrupt how do you elect a non-corrupt government? Also drop the stereotypes.


Thanks Warwick for saving me the bother.

Brian, you obviously feel so much contempt and so little compassion for the Greek people, that I wonder why you feel drawn to this forum?

Guy M
Posts: 201
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:20 pm
Location: Kalamitsi Alexandrou

Re: The End Game

Postby Guy M » Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:34 pm

A fair take on the current position - and a reminder that this isn't the endgame just the last scenes of this particular act.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... re-purpose

Loretta9

Re: The End Game

Postby Loretta9 » Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:53 pm

I think it great to read opinions from whatever camp you pitch your tent. What Brian said, had to be said. But I must say that Kilkis response was perfect in every way, if for one factor that I could not compose such a multi faceted display on reality as he has stated.
The EU is corrupt Brian... The IMF is corrupt ... The ECB is corrupt. The banks have, as a matte of absolute fact, been proven to have committed criminal acts .. all for greed.
Even in UK we are scammed but the difference is that the OXBridge elite who control us have mastered the art of obfuscation, deceit and double speak... and the British fall for it. Who else would not bat an eyelid at British MPs giving themselves a £7000 annual pay rise and pay £1000 per household for a short bit of Railtrack HS2 .. they will never, ever use even if it was free to travel on. While at the same time be told that they pay more for services and can never see a pay rise on the horizon.

filippos
Posts: 5310
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:38 pm
Location: Kalyves
Contact:

Re: The End Game

Postby filippos » Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:54 pm

Another interesting piece published yesterday on The IMF's global economy forum. (It's in English with a link to the Greek version.)


Return to “General Discussion & News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests