The Next Government?

[Kilkis]

I have no idea what UK paedophiles have to do with the Greek election or Varoufakis.

You would find that you communicate much better, Loretta, if you make simple statements. For example, "I agree/disagree with the views presented by Varoufakis in the article" or possibly, "I agree with Varoufakis' views that ... but I disagree with his views that...". If people understood what you are saying, which I certainly don't most of the time, then you might find fewer people arguing with you. There again you might not.

Warwick

[scooby]

Two things of interest to me:
1. Speaking to a neighbour, she says there are a lot of people ready to vote Golden Dawn.
2. The German finance minister seems to contradict himself when he says, Greece were on the path to growth and sustainability under New Democracy and in another breath he says the reforms from 2010/2011 were not carried out. Well, if the "reforms" were not carried out and yet Greece was on the path to growth why have the bloody reforms.
Loretta9 get a grip

[Phild]

1. Speaking to a neighbour, she says there are a lot of people ready to vote Golden Dawn.

Some of my younger friends here (30's and 40's age group) who largely voted SYRIZA last time, are now mostly expressing an intention not to vote this time. They say,

What's the point? We voted them in once; they didn't make anything better - they ignored our opinions twice - we're not voting this time.

On another topic, There must be few politicians who don't speak in double- or even triple-speak. That seems to be their nature.

Now, for example, we have Tsipras who is apparently promising to abolish 23% VAT on private education, which is a measure that he pushed through parliament in July. Link here.

[Kilkis]

Does he have a choice? http://www.ekathimerini.com/201031/arti ... eaks-rules If the Commission tells him that applying 23 % VAT to private school fees breaks EU rules I wouldn't describe removing it as a U turn?

Warwick

[Loretta9]

Oh dear oh dear !! ..... Ive tried to assist but the same old feather duster attacks drift towards me. "Argument" is the fundamental basis of a discussion forum so thats a presumption on my part. Varoufakis behind the scenes (behind the politicians) planned a parallel currency, appearing the confrontational game player but politically naive. Tsipras, the real politician, was stymied by Varoufakis grandstanding and thus could not engage in political debate. The question is; Why ? Why did such an intelligent man as Varoufakis become the maverick player and why could he not foresee the outcome from his approach on such a vital matter ? i/e Tsipras booting him out ? My intuition tells me that Varoufakis was a game player fair enough but a game player on whose behalf ?? It defies logic that such a highly capable person should find himself in the position he has - a non player.
Therefore in regard to the link, I spoke on, his comments concur with my own. He explains in said report (link) that his interpretation is bracketed in red ink, thus he is clearly saying that the speakers of said report are speaking in deliberate, obscure language/wording. Orwell called it "double speak".
Brendan Behan - was asked .... "why dont you become a politician Mr Behan" ..... to which he replied .. "I cant I only have one face". Varoufakis has two faces but is certainly no politician.

[Kilkis]

I think you will find that Varoufakis planned a parallel currency because Schauble was pushing for Greece to leave the Euro and the ECB was progressively strangling the Greek banking sector. Faced with such a prospect what should he do as finance minister? Sit back, do nothing and see what happens? It was Tsipras who decided not to use it. There are quite a few sensible economists who think he should have made use of it.

I think too much was made of game playing. While it is true that he has written articles on game theory he is first and foremost an economist. He has also written articles and books on economics. I don't see any evidence at all of him using game theory in the negotiations. He put forward what he believed, with a lot of justification, an economic argument why the bailout failed and how it could be restructured to make it work better. He was making the same arguments in interviews I have seen long before the election. In fact Syriza argued in a pretty consistent fashion against how the bailout was being implemented throughout the five years of the ND-PASOK coalition. While this was presented in the right wing self, interested media as mad Marxist theories they were mainly accurate criticisms, as the failure of the bailout has proved.

I am not sure which report you refer to where he bracketed his interpretation in red ink. There have been lots of links referring to Varoufakis. Please repeat the particular link to which you refer.

Warwick

PS Yet more confusing rhetoric. What or who did you try to assist? I didn't notice anybody asking for help. What on earth is a "feather duster attack" and how can attacks "drift towards you". If you think somebody is attacking you say so and identify who and in what way they have attacked you. As far as I can see people have disagreed with your viewpoint, which is perfectly normal, and said that they cannot understand a lot of what you write. Isn't it better they tell you that they cannot understand you rather than simply think, "Sod it. I don't know what he means so I'll ignore him"? If somebody doesn't understand one of my posts I expect them to tell me. Finally, what did you presume? You say "thats (sic) a presumption" but it is not clear what the "that" refers to.

[SteveH]

. "Argument" is the fundamental basis of a discussion forum...

Errr... I think you might find that "Discussion" is the fundamental basis of a discussion forum. They might be known as "Argument Forums", otherwise.

I'm not going to elucidate on the different meanings of "discus" & "argue", suffice to say "It is not just semantics".

On the point of "double speak", I suspect this has only become prevalent since ( add another "prevalent since", in if needed) others have needed to "read between the lines". What I say is what I think, & despite my ineptitude with language, how I see it.

Steve.

p.s. discussion is good...

[altohb]

. "Argument" is the fundamental basis of a discussion forum...

Errr... I think you might find that "Discussion" is the fundamental basis of a discussion forum. They might be known as "Argument Forums", otherwise.

I'm not going to elucidate on the different meanings of "discus" & "argue", suffice to say "It is not just semantics".

On the point of "double speak", I suspect this has only become prevalent since ( add another "prevalent since", in if needed) others have needed to "read between the lines". What I say is what I think, & despite my ineptitude with language, how I see it.

Steve.

p.s. discussion is good...

...or, to paraphrase Alice - "'I mean what I say' might not necessarily be the same as 'I say what I mean'"!

@SteveH - nice to know that some people actually do say what they mean on the forum, as we certainly seem to be getting into Wonderland or Looking Glass territory here.

BTW - Orwell wrote about "doublethink" or "newspeak" - "doublespeak" - ie combining the two - was not his coinage.

[Loretta9]

A discussion is an exchange of information between two or more people. An argument is a discussion where people disagree. I find it almost surreal explaining this to previous contributors. I can only reach the conclusion you are being deliberately obtuse.
However - having concluded that you, in the most part, tend to agree with each other - I would accept your ownership of the meaning of "discussion".
Note the absence of Clio NOT POINTING OUT your drift away from "Greek Issues" and you have clear evidence of my salient point.
The link - again I assumed you were in tune with this post - or do I have to point out every . and I and T ? - the link is in the thread.
Anyway .....I will leave you all, for now, to pat each other on the back.
PS: Clio .... I am disappointed you have not "attacked" your "pals" for clearly and most deliberately going off piste - this is a DISCUSSION FORUM about Greece and CRETE in particular.
In conclusion and I dont wish to start an argument - my previous threads on this post are 100% correct both in meaning, composition and evidential presentation. Further indulgence ... "going down the Rabbit hole" is futile.

[bobscott]

Given the title of this thread, and in an attempt to dodge the teddies flying about between cots, and return to the topic in hand, here is yet another example of bureaucratic interference with the democratic process in Greece. I'm sure somebody will want to comment?
http://apokoronasnews.gr/brussels-demands-broad-coalition-in-greece-to-discuss-debt-relief/

[mouche]

Yes, I fulle share the view expressed in Brussels as Greece, unfortunately, has proved themselves to be a totalay unreliable and irrersponsible party/partner!

And by the way; in order to achieve large reforms like f.inst taxreforms and pensionsreforms in a country it's quite normal to have a broad coalition behind such reforms. At least so in my country, but in Greece?

[SteveH]

I'm not sure it really matters who our Greek host vote for. This is their future:-

A Dutchman ‘in control’ of the Greek government

[Loretta9]

"The Greek government will be placed under the strict supervision of Brussels to ensure that all agreed reforms will be implemented, says the report."

Well done Tsipras. You nailed it. Just imagine if you failed to end Austerity measures ?????