Greece to blame again?

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YoMo2
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Greece to blame again?

Postby YoMo2 » Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:35 am

See this latest piece of EU nonsense. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35559159

Since Greece has no control over boats leaving Turkey for Greece, exactly how is Greece supposed to control this border? Shoot them out of the water I suppose.

Apparently, "Germany and other states have been critical of Greece's ability to stem the flow."............

Andrew

bobscott
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Re: Greece to blame again?

Postby bobscott » Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:45 am

YoMo2 wrote:See this latest piece of EU nonsense. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35559159

Since Greece has no control over boats leaving Turkey for Greece, exactly how is Greece supposed to control this border? Shoot them out of the water I suppose.

Apparently, "Germany and other states have been critical of Greece's ability to stem the flow."............

Andrew


Andrew: we just have to get used to the idea that there are those in Europe who are so anti-Greece, that anything can be used as a cudgel to beat her with. A lot just want Greece to disappear off the face of Europe. So our economic plan is wrong, our approach to migrants is wrong - they all know better. It's easy from the ivory tower and the comfy armchair. Ask those in Lesbos (including some expats from this area) what it's like and what can be done and you might get closer to the truth on the immigration front. But don't expect the critics to listen. Doesn't fit their agenda, so they ignore it. Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

Kilkis
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Re: Greece to blame again?

Postby Kilkis » Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:05 am

A view from the Greek side here

Warwick

Loretta9

Re: Greece to blame again?

Postby Loretta9 » Sat Feb 13, 2016 12:04 pm

The existence of the Schengen agreement and the Dublin Regulation confirm the intent, via open borders, of the European Union encouraging mass immigration. Everyone, except those responsible in the EU, are full of ideas on what should be done.
Greece as the buffer to mass immigration needs more money and more support - what does the EU do? grind Greek people to their knees while at the same time blaming them for not controlling hundreds of thousands of refugees.
Britain and USA created the circumstances (invading sovereign countries) backed by that lovely example of democracy and freedom > Saudi Arabia.
The EU psychos at the helm love open borders and mass immigration because it fuels their main intention of cheap labour for their corporate and bankster pals. If you think thats bad just look at Ttip.The undeniable truth of conspiracy between the big Corporate bosses and governments handing over control to the unelected, unworthy, greedy scum driving the whole kaboodle.

Kilkis
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Re: Greece to blame again?

Postby Kilkis » Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:50 pm

Loretta9 wrote:The existence of the Schengen agreement and the Dublin Regulation confirm the intent, via open borders, of the European Union encouraging mass immigration...


That is not an accurate or logical conclusion, Loretta. The purpose of Schengen is to facilitate free movement WITHIN Europe, in accordance with the guiding principles of the EU. It does nothing to encourage immigration into the EU at all nor is it intended to.

Merkel offered to accept a virtually unlimited number of refugees from Syria and that obviously encouraged immigration. As far as I am aware it did not consult with the Greek or Italian governments how that mass immigration would be managed before making the "open door" offer. That offer was nothing to do with Schengen and arguably broke the Schengen agreement, since, once Germany had accepted them, they would be free to move anywhere in the Schengen area.

I agree that it is odd that people in the UK make so much noise about giving up sovereignty in an open and controlled way to Brussels but appear quite happy to hand complete sovereignty over to global companies through a top-secret back-door agreement, of which even our elected representatives are not allowed to know the terms.

Warwick

YoMo2
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Re: Greece to blame again?

Postby YoMo2 » Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:45 pm

And how successful they have been in keeping quiet the whole TTIP thing. Absolute disgrace. (Thread drift).

Andrew

Loretta9

Re: Greece to blame again?

Postby Loretta9 » Sat Feb 13, 2016 7:01 pm

The threatened imposition of "border controls", putting Greece as the buffer zone, shows the absolute central control by the EU core dictators. Poorer countries can go to the wall while Juncker protects Germany and France. No wonder the EU Federal Nation State Border Police is on the agenda.

mouche
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Re: Greece to blame again?

Postby mouche » Sun Feb 14, 2016 12:47 pm

YoMo2 wrote:
Since Greece has no control over boats leaving Turkey for Greece, exactly how is Greece supposed to control this border? Shoot them out of the water I suppose.



How about stopping them before they reach Greek waters and turn them back? How about getting in dialouge with Turkish authorities? How about asking the EU for concrete help showing them (the EU) how they can contribute themselves and what they need in terms of help?

YoMo2
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Re: Greece to blame again?

Postby YoMo2 » Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:16 pm

mouche wrote:How about stopping them before they reach Greek waters and turn them back?

Really? I think you would make a great EU politician. They all talk out of their backsides too.

Andrew

bobscott
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Re: Greece to blame again?

Postby bobscott » Sun Feb 14, 2016 6:43 pm

YoMo2 wrote:
mouche wrote:How about stopping them before they reach Greek waters and turn them back?

Really? I think you would make a great EU politician. They all talk out of their backsides too.

Andrew


Interesting that the NATO naval force to patrol the Turkish/Greek boundary is being led by ............Germany.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

Kilkis
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Re: Greece to blame again?

Postby Kilkis » Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:31 pm

NATO assets are divided up into specific forces, which may include assets from many countries. At any instant each force has an overall commander and that revolves round the NATO member states who have contributed to that force. It just happens that the force NATO is proposing to use to patrol the Aegean, i.e. Standing NATO Maritime Group Two is currently led by Germany. It contains ships from Germany, Canada, Italy, Greece and Turkey and others may join, e.g. Denmark and the Netherlands. Command will rotate but not to Greece or Turkey, presumably because the other would object.

Warwick

mouche
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Re: Greece to blame again?

Postby mouche » Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:20 am

bobscott wrote:
YoMo2 wrote:
mouche wrote:How about stopping them before they reach Greek waters and turn them back?

Really? I think you would make a great EU politician. They all talk out of their backsides too.

Andrew


Interesting that the NATO naval force to patrol the Turkish/Greek boundary is being led by ............Germany.


You may find it "intereseting" but hopefulle by now you know (and understand?) why? We see nothing strange in Natoforces on manoeuver in our country led by nationals from other countries but for a brit this may seem strange, maybe, but then again for a brit many things seem strange since Britain rules the waves and then some. Ot at least did at one time!

Kilkis
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Re: Greece to blame again?

Postby Kilkis » Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:41 am

Brits have absolutely no problem with the fact that the various NATO forces, in which they participate, come under the command of other countries. I have participated in NATO exercises and it is completely natural. Bob was simply reflecting how the move will be viewed by most Greeks. There is no doubt that Germany was the prime mover in ensuring that the bailout conditions were excessively harsh so the fact that they are now the leaders in a force that will be seen by many as being imposed on Greece will not sit well with many Greeks.

Many of us have a lot of empathy with the people who kindly allow us to live in their country and accept us with open arms, not as hated immigrants. Clearly you don't.

Warwick

Loretta9

Re: Greece to blame again?

Postby Loretta9 » Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:03 am

NATO:
The Parties to this Treaty reaffirm their faith in the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and their desire to live in peace with all peoples and all governments.
They are determined to safeguard the freedom, common heritage and civilisation of their peoples, founded on the principles of democracy, individual liberty and the rule of law. They seek to promote stability and well-being in the North Atlantic area.
They are resolved to unite their efforts for collective defence and for the preservation of peace and security. They therefore agree to this North Atlantic Treaty :

PS > USA can do what it likes.??

bobscott
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Re: Greece to blame again?

Postby bobscott » Mon Feb 15, 2016 2:52 pm

mouche wrote:
You may find it "intereseting" but hopefulle by now you know (and understand?) why? We see nothing strange in Natoforces on manoeuver in our country led by nationals from other countries but for a brit this may seem strange, maybe, but then again for a brit many things seem strange since Britain rules the waves and then some. Ot at least did at one time!


I said 'Interesting' alluding to the fact that Germany is one of those pillorying Greece for not doing more. I do understand (believe it or not) the concept of the NATO standing force in the Mediterranean and regularly watch various components of that force coming into Souda port for a bit of R&R as well as replenishment. And that includes the fairly regular sight of the ships being led in by a Turkish Frigate (the last time I saw this was 10 days ago). So it was a mere comment - not a pointer to my ignorance nor to any imagined prejudices held by a Brit as opposed to all the other good folks out there!
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!


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