Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

[Kilkis]

The American phrase, "Strike three!" springs to mind?

Warwick

[Loretta9]

Me thinks I hit a nerve. The reserves have been conscripted
When you come across a Fig tree - why act surprised when it produces Figs.
PS: I like the play on words. "Strike" three. Strike being well connected to Greece and France. Well done. Not covered on mainstream media tho.

[moved 2 crete]

The murder of Jo Cox will surely have an effect on the referendum voting, R.I.P Jo Cox...........

[nigeljackson5]

www.lbc.co.uk › News
Well worth a watch for James O'Briens comments

[filippos]

I appreciate this is in the Daily Wail but ............
If members of an allegedly friendly club can enforce a disaster like this why would anyone want to remain a member?

[Loretta9]

James O'Brien is never one for missing the moment. I do not agree with O'Briens analogy. He shouts down George Galloway when GG digs out those in power and those who think they have power for stirring up the anti-Muslim agenda which creates hatred and xenophobia.

[peebee]

I think J O'B is a very well educated guy, and I do listen to LBC on-line.
I used to agree with nearly everything he said, but unfortunately these days, I find him very annoying at times.
He has his own personal views, and yes, at times, IMO he does tend to force them upon the listener and the people who phone-in.
I was listening to his monologue on immigrants (re Jo Cox's murder) a couple of days ago, but I think he is missing the point.
Immigration per se is not a problem, it is the hoards of illegals and all those `refugees' who are heading from EU countries, in the expectation of receiving handouts from the UK taxpayer.
I think even Warwick would have trouble trying to make an argument with him.
Now there's a thought, maybe we could sponsor one between them for charity

[Loretta9]

Global Radio own LBC;
The UK’s largest commercial radio group, Global Radio, advised its stations, which include Classic FM, Capital and LBC, to drop the HSBC tax story on the morning the story broke for “editorial reasons”.

Global, which broadcasts to about 23 million listeners a week, advised its stations not to run reports about the banking giant after it was revealed that the bank’s Swiss subsidiary helped wealthy customers store assets offshore in an unaccountable way.

Enough said I think.
I will anticipate comments denouncing the above as "nothing to do with Crete" by saying ..... opinions are formed around information put into the public arena. O'Brien is propagating a view which in my opinion is an attempt to curtail comments on immigration implying it is hate speech and stirs up hatred and can in fact eventually be the direct cause for killing an MP. Gutter journalism.

[bobscott]

Immigration per se is not a problem, it is the hoards of illegals and all those `refugees' who are heading from EU countries, in the expectation of receiving handouts from the UK taxpayer.
:

What evidence, if any (and I mean evidence, not suspicion) is there that "the hoards of illegals and all those `refugees' who are heading from EU countries" are actually doing so, " in the expectation of receiving handouts from the UK taxpayer" ((quotes from you, highlighted by me).)

Would you be kind enough to define your use of the words 'refugees' and 'illegals'? Do you have anything approaching even a ball-park figure for either category?

Who are these 'refugees' who are heading from EU countries? EU nationals exercising their right to move around Europe (just like we have done), or are they

real refugees fleeing for their lives from middle-eastern/north African countries and who happened to have made it to Europe from their countries of origin after the most frightening and appalling voyages across the water?

Yes, it is very emotive, but where, please, is the hard evidence for your statement? Bob.

[filippos]

My attitude is pretty well summed up by this Charles Moore article in the Telegraph.

A couple of quotes from the article.

"But the system of parliamentary democracy – under which we claim to live – is based on the idea that the choice of who governs is not a matter for experts, but for the people governed. Experts, when they nearly all agree – as with the Munich Agreement, ERM entry, the euro and now a Remain vote – are likely to be wrong, because they confuse their own interests and group-think with the general good."

"The European Union was and is deliberately constructed to frustrate that will.
Its government is not formed from a parliament or even by a vote. Its rulers
cannot be collectively kicked out by electors. Its legislation is initiated
by officials. Its court of law, seated in Luxembourg, overrides that of any
democracy. It sounds unkind to say it, but if an MEP were murdered, we would
all, in human terms, be horrified, but I do not believe we would see it as a
threat to our democratic way of life.

"It is a very serious decision but not, I would argue, such a terribly difficult one.
Is there anything in the shape of the modern world which tells us that when we vote
to be run by a distant oligarchy, we thrive? Is there anything in our history which
tells us that when we vote to govern ourselves, we go wrong?"

When we joined “Europe” in 1973, not much difference was immediately apparent.
When voters put in Mrs Thatcher in 1979, they were largely correct in thinking
that their decision would make a big difference. Nearly 40 years on, however,
the vote which we cast at general elections has ever-decreasing power."

The whole debate has been distorted by both sides. The remain side has been saying
thinks like GDP will be x% worse in 2030 if we leave. The leave side has been arguing
that we would simply negotiate deals with countries outside the EU and would, as a
result, be y% better off.

How the hell do they know when they've been getting predictions wrong for decades if
not longer. None of us knows what will happen tomorrow let alone in 2020 or 2030 so
it's all bull***t built on computer models designed to produce the answers they want.

There are risks associated with leaving but there are risks just as big to remaining.

[Loretta9]

I agree with that article filippos. It just about sums up my approach. I dont see what is so difficult in choosing to want the power or ability to see my list of constituency candidates and putting my X on the ballot paper. I am however slightly phased by those who want to remain who truly believe that the EC (Commissioners) are elected - subjected to democratic control. Its akin to me voting for someone who then will go away and vote for my constituency MP. They (remain camp) are in denial or dismissive to the obvious meaning of democracy and voting etc .. it means putting an X against a name .. it means that you and I put that X on the paper.

[Loretta9]

Bob..... Interesting thread. For me it links directly into the James O'Brien (pretend to care) report. The implication from such a report is that he would prefer that you and peebee did not have such a debate. You might be directly responsible for the death of another MP.

[peebee]

What evidence, if any (and I mean evidence, not suspicion) is there that "the hoards of illegals and all those `refugees' who are heading from EU countries" are actually doing so, " in the expectation of receiving handouts from the UK taxpayer" ((quotes from you, highlighted by me).)

You may have misunderstood my post Bob, after re-reading it, I can see it is open to misinterpretation.
What I should have written was `Non EU citizens heading from EU countries'.

[bobscott]

What evidence, if any (and I mean evidence, not suspicion) is there that "the hoards of illegals and all those `refugees' who are heading from EU countries" are actually doing so, " in the expectation of receiving handouts from the UK taxpayer" ((quotes from you, highlighted by me).)

You may have misunderstood my post Bob, after re-reading it, I can see it is open to misinterpretation.
What I should have written was `Non EU citizens heading from EU countries'.

Thanks for the clarification - but what about the rest of the questions and the evidence? Bob.

[bobscott]

Bob..... Interesting thread. For me it links directly into the James O'Brien (pretend to care) report. The implication from such a report is that he would prefer that you and peebee did not have such a debate. You might be directly responsible for the death of another MP.

I think your last comment is exceedingly insensitive.