E1 tax submission - prove you're married??

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GlennB
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 9:38 pm

E1 tax submission - prove you're married??

Postby GlennB » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:59 pm

Some weeks ago we submitted our income tax details to the usual accountant, but she hit us with a brand new requirement - as of this year (she says) we have to prove we're married (we're both Brits, by the way). Has any other permanent resident here been told this?

It seemed easy - provide her with the marriage certificate. She then had to get that translated and notarised, but it seems that it's still not sufficient, as the Greek embassy in London has to authorise it as genuine! But I phoned them and they won't do that, as they can only authorise/legalise Greek documents.

The full procedure:
Get the UK embassy in Athens to confirm the document is legal.
Get that confirmation officially translated by the Greek Ministry of the Interior
Get that translation stamped by the Greek embassy in London

Can anybody shed any light on even how she has got this idea, as it's totally unshiftable from her head.

Kilkis
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Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: E1 tax submission - prove you're married??

Postby Kilkis » Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:26 pm

I don't know anything about wedding licence verification but there has been a tightening up generally on documentation.

In 2011 I had a full tax audit. At that time they accepted certificates for all sources of income from the UK in English. It looks like I now have to go through another full audit for 2016 and based on other people's experience I am expecting it to be much more difficult. I am expecting them to require an Apostille attached to each document and a translation of each into Greek. The total cost of that is going to be quite large. Even worse, I checked each certificate and only two stand any chance of getting an Apostille. I am going to have to ask each organisation to issue a new certificate in a format that will allow it to get an Apostille and the chances of most of them doing that is slim to nil. What makes it especially annoying is that at the end of the exercise they will have a file full of paper but they will have no more information than they have now and they will end up charging me exactly the same amount of tax. Given the level of tax evasion in Greece I would have thought they could expend their energy better elsewhere.

Warwick

bettyboo
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:48 am

Re: E1 tax submission - prove you're married??

Postby bettyboo » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:06 pm

We were told by our accountant this year that he couldn't proceed with the online submission of our tax return because there was no copy of a marriage certificate on tax office records. We provided him with a copy of the certificate and he arranged translation through a lawyer, we were charged 30 euro. We had to go up to the tax office to sign a paper and by the time we got back to the accountants office he could see on his computer that records were updated and he could proceed with the tax return.

GlennB
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Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: E1 tax submission - prove you're married??

Postby GlennB » Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:40 pm

bettyboo wrote:We were told by our accountant this year that he couldn't proceed with the online submission of our tax return because there was no copy of a marriage certificate on tax office records. We provided him with a copy of the certificate and he arranged translation through a lawyer, we were charged 30 euro. We had to go up to the tax office to sign a paper and by the time we got back to the accountants office he could see on his computer that records were updated and he could proceed with the tax return.


Ah, thanks! At least this proves that our accountant isn't totally nuts ;) We got the translation for a mere €20, so now we just need to convince her that that's good enough.

Confession - we don't live in Crete, but in Arkadia. Our tax office might have moved from Leonidio (25 mins drive down the coast) up to Tripoli (90 mins up the mountains). Fingers crossed ...

YoMo2
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Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:07 am
Location: Milatos, Lasithi

Re: E1 tax submission - prove you're married??

Postby YoMo2 » Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:19 am

Did tax return a few weeks ago. No mention of marriage certificate.....................

Andrew
"It's all in the implementation"

bobscott
Posts: 2076
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:36 pm
Location: Kokkino Horio

Re: E1 tax submission - prove you're married??

Postby bobscott » Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:09 am

YoMo2 wrote:Did tax return a few weeks ago. No mention of marriage certificate.....................

Andrew


Ditto.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

bettyboo
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:48 am

Re: E1 tax submission - prove you're married??

Postby bettyboo » Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:02 am

Friends of mine couldn't renew their ika books last year until they produced a translated copy of marriage certificate but we've never been asked..yet. Just one of those things we love about Greek bureaucracy :)

GlennB
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: E1 tax submission - prove you're married??

Postby GlennB » Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:09 pm

The good news - he local tax office is still open.

The bad news - they were clueless about the whole business and more or less just sent us back to the accountant.

We're seriously thinking of sending an estimated sum to the Greek finance ministry with a note to explain what's going on :) At least it would show willing.

We wonder if, maybe, someone is under the impression that the UK has already left the EU and is applying a different set of regulations ? Ah well.

Kilkis
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Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: E1 tax submission - prove you're married??

Postby Kilkis » Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:17 pm

Have you tried asking at a local KEP office. They might not know the answer but if it is a good office, and most of them are, they might be able to find out what the regulation really is.

Warwick

BST
Posts: 325
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:29 pm

Re: E1 tax submission - prove you're married??

Postby BST » Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:12 pm

Tax return done a few weeks ago and no mention of marriage certificate. Just wondering if it's something to do with IKAs which don't apply to us anyway???

GlennB
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: E1 tax submission - prove you're married??

Postby GlennB » Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:44 am

Kilkis wrote:Have you tried asking at a local KEP office. They might not know the answer but if it is a good office, and most of them are, they might be able to find out what the regulation really is.

Warwick


Worth a shot, though the whole saga at some point involved getting our signatures verified and stamped by KEP. Our local KEP lady is also very keen to help Brits as she's lined up for a serious English exam in the winter and likes to practice her spoken English.

bobscott
Posts: 2076
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Location: Kokkino Horio

Re: E1 tax submission - prove you're married??

Postby bobscott » Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:05 am

GlennB wrote:
Kilkis wrote:Have you tried asking at a local KEP office. They might not know the answer but if it is a good office, and most of them are, they might be able to find out what the regulation really is.

Warwick


Worth a shot, though the whole saga at some point involved getting our signatures verified and stamped by KEP. Our local KEP lady is also very keen to help Brits as she's lined up for a serious English exam in the winter and likes to practice her spoken English.


Am a bit unsure here if we are talking people paying taxes who are tax resident in Greece, or (the alleged majority of expats) those who are still tax resident in the UK and to whom the accountants tend to turn a (possibly semi-legal) blind eye? Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

GlennB
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: E1 tax submission - prove you're married??

Postby GlennB » Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:44 am

bobscott wrote:
Am a bit unsure here if we are talking people paying taxes who are tax resident in Greece, or (the alleged majority of expats) those who are still tax resident in the UK and to whom the accountants tend to turn a (possibly semi-legal) blind eye? Bob.


The only way I know of (apart from plain lying) to remain tax resident in the UK is to live there >183 days a year.

In our case (and that of others we've discussed this with) we're tax resident in Greece and have been from the outset. This is our 9th E1 and the first time proof of marriage has been required. We can't even get an explanation for when the idea was introduced.

Kilkis
Posts: 8922
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: E1 tax submission - prove you're married??

Postby Kilkis » Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:10 am

It depends on your accountant. Virtually everybody I know is registered as non-tax resident in Greece and they all live here permanently.

If you have lived here 9 years, have no income in Greece and were registered as tax resident here from the beginning then you have a pretty poor accountant. The 183 day rule was only introduced about 4 years ago. Before that, under Greek tax law you could remain tax resident where your income arose and most ex-pats were registered as non-tax resident completely legally on that basis. Many accountants have used a phrase in the 183 day Clause to keep those clients as non-tax resident. I think changing from tax resident to non-tax resident might prove more difficult. You still need to submit an E1 even if you are non-tax resident.

Warwick

GlennB
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: E1 tax submission - prove you're married??

Postby GlennB » Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:55 pm

Kilkis wrote:It depends on your accountant. Virtually everybody I know is registered as non-tax resident in Greece and they all live here permanently.

If you have lived here 9 years, have no income in Greece and were registered as tax resident here from the beginning then you have a pretty poor accountant. The 183 day rule was only introduced about 4 years ago. Before that, under Greek tax law you could remain tax resident where your income arose and most ex-pats were registered as non-tax resident completely legally on that basis.


I don't think that's right. Whether or not people were getting away with it the law goes back decades. e.g. -

"However, the Greek legislator had already introduced the term of habitual residence (referred to as “habitual domicile”) in decision Δ 247Β/1-3-88 issued by the Ministry of Finance, which was ratified with article 11 par. 4 of Law 1839/1989, and which is also referred to in article 76 of Law 2127/1993 "

http://www.taxlaw.gr/en/idika-themata/2 ... -greek-law


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