Any advice on starting a business in Crete?

Chat and items of interest about Crete and Greece.
TweetTweet
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Re: Any advice on starting a business in Crete?

Postby TweetTweet » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:43 pm

sorry, for some reason your initial sentence didn't show up.
Setting up a briquette making factory to turn waste from the olive trees into fire bricks

You said:

Most prunings are burnt on the roadside or left on the ground ,not everybody owns goats and sheep. .The MAJORITY of sheep and goats are semi wild and loose in remote areas and are not likely to be rounded up from the top of a mountain to eat an few leaves.Besides they can only eat fresh leaves anyway and the leaves do not stay fresh very long after cutting
I've been here for 25 years and actively olive farming for the last 18. None of the fields where I live employ the land management you describe.

Clearly you don't know very much in respect of a goat diet - goats and sheep like fresh leaves, particularly from the mulberry for example, but they will become sickly if they eat too much in one sitting, - the withered leaves of olives, carobs, skinos etc) form part of their best natural healthy diet.

There arent enough sheep and goats on the whole island to eat all the biomass waste produced anyway! .

I expect there are more than enough goats and sheep to eat their way to a beautiful *gourmet* satisfied experience. Human beings are the problem :)

We do not prune during harvest time ,a tiny amount is under taken ,but we do the main pruning after .Some fires but not all are caused by olive tree farmers burning their waste and the fire becoming out of control during or shortly after the times of harvesting and pruning- from October to March.

Again, generally speaking, it is good use of time in the olive grove to concurrently do basic and essential husbandry tasks. I accept each person's experience and ideas about how best to utilise time and equipment will be different.

Just to say to anyone who might be interested, it is easy peasy to start your wood burner, open fire etc - only a very small handful of extremely dry *horta* is required. (Your have to be the ant rather than the grass-hopper):)

I always have some oil left from the previous year so I use that as well. Also of course for an open fire (apart from a good mixture of different wood) some fire-building dynamics are required. Air-flow etc.

DobbyTheHouseElf
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Re: Any advice on starting a business in Crete?

Postby DobbyTheHouseElf » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:59 pm

TweetTweet wrote:sorry, for some reason your initial sentence didn't show up.
Setting up a briquette making factory to turn waste from the olive trees into fire bricks

You said:

Most prunings are burnt on the roadside or left on the ground ,not everybody owns goats and sheep. .The MAJORITY of sheep and goats are semi wild and loose in remote areas and are not likely to be rounded up from the top of a mountain to eat an few leaves.Besides they can only eat fresh leaves anyway and the leaves do not stay fresh very long after cutting
I've been here for 25 years and actively olive farming for the last 18. None of the fields where I live employ the land management you describe.

Clearly you don't know very much in respect of a goat diet - goats and sheep like fresh leaves, particularly from the mulberry for example, but they will become sickly if they eat too much in one sitting, - the withered leaves of olives, carobs, skinos etc) form part of their best natural healthy diet.

There arent enough sheep and goats on the whole island to eat all the biomass waste produced anyway! .

I expect there are more than enough goats and sheep to eat their way to a beautiful *gourmet* satisfied experience. Human beings are the problem :)

We do not prune during harvest time ,a tiny amount is under taken ,but we do the main pruning after .Some fires but not all are caused by olive tree farmers burning their waste and the fire becoming out of control during or shortly after the times of harvesting and pruning- from October to March.

Again, generally speaking, it is good use of time in the olive grove to concurrently do basic and essential husbandry tasks. I accept each person's experience and ideas about how best to utilise time and equipment will be different.

Just to say to anyone who might be interested, it is easy peasy to start your wood burner, open fire etc - only a very small handful of extremely dry *horta* is required. (Your have to be the ant rather than the grass-hopper):)

I always have some oil left from the previous year so I use that as well. Also of course for an open fire (apart from a good mixture of different wood) some fire-building dynamics are required. Air-flow etc.

Hi been back to consulting the Mrs! .She was born here 57 years ago and grew up in Chania ,owns around a 1000 olive trees and has been producing olive oil for many years. I myself have only had one season olive farming , picking the olives last year and then pruning from Jan to march.Sorry we do it slightly differently only doing the picking during the picking and getting it done as fast as possible .we feel it is better to get the picking done as there is enough to do with 14 nets ,the sieiving ,filling the sacks and getting them to the factory ,as well as moving the equipment to other areas ..If I see something that wants cutting and there is a enough time I will lop it off.Mainly because I will have forgotten about it by the time it comes to doing the pruning .I only write from what I saw with my own eyes in the Panethemos area and along the road back to our house to Kolymabari ,which was mainly burning on the road side or leaving the waste on the ground with some some farmers crunching up with machinery and not much being taken away on tractors, saying to the Mrs " isnt it as shame all this gets burnt without providing any heat to anyone " after passing many fires..I am fairly new at olive farming and always willing to learn ,what I didnt know or wasnt sure of I asked the partner for advice .Thank you for your advice and input.
Last edited by DobbyTheHouseElf on Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:38 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Jeffstclair
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Re: Any advice on starting a business in Crete?

Postby Jeffstclair » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:53 pm

I always (and all my friends around here) treat the olive harvest and olive tree pruning as two separate jobs ....I think its better to get the olives in and to the factory asap ...then when it's all done and dusted ....the nets go out in the field to get a wash in the winter rain (some hope) chainsaw get a service and I go out with a calm pruning head on ....I love pruning olive trees, it's one of my favourite jobs, nothing better on a cold morning, flask of coffee ,.....going home with a pile of fire wood in the truck .... I think your plan is very interesting , but I suspect you might have to show you can make it work before you will get any help from the government ...Have you looked to the EU for any advice or support ... where is your market ?who is gonna buy briquettes ...most folk I know have more firewood than they know what to do with... and for them that don't have it for free, it's cheap enough to buy ....and pyrini is very cheap to run central heating...

Kilkis
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Re: Any advice on starting a business in Crete?

Postby Kilkis » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:04 pm

I think what the discussion illustrates is the difference between a "business idea" and a "business plan". As an ex-business manager I would say DobbyThehouseElf has a "business idea" but, as yet, he doesn't have a "business plan". Most people I know regard starting a business in Greece as the nine levels of hell as portrayed in Dante's Inferno rolled into one. Ending a business is infinitely worse. Operating a business in Greece involves dealing with the tax office, who model their activities as a cross between the extortion and protection rackets of the Mafia.

Have fun.

Warwick

DobbyTheHouseElf
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Re: Any advice on starting a business in Crete?

Postby DobbyTheHouseElf » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:31 pm

Jeffstclair wrote:I always (and all my friends around here) treat the olive harvest and olive tree pruning as two separate jobs ....I think its better to get the olives in and to the factory asap ...then when it's all done and dusted ....the nets go out in the field to get a wash in the winter rain (some hope) chainsaw get a service and I go out with a calm pruning head on ....I love pruning olive trees, it's one of my favourite jobs, nothing better on a cold morning, flask of coffee ,.....going home with a pile of fire wood in the truck .... I think your plan is very interesting , but I suspect you might have to show you can make it work before you will get any help from the government ...Have you looked to the EU for any advice or support ... where is your market ?who is gonna buy briquettes ...most folk I know have more firewood than they know what to do with... and for them that don't have it for free, it's cheap enough to buy ....and pyrini is very cheap to run central heating...

We were going to study the in and outs in a bit more detail,even down to checking the pricing of firewood in shops .To my knowledge the average price is a 100 euro a ton .trying to do costings and pricings.Really the comments on here put me off .Even my partner said dont do it not at this time wait til things get better!

DobbyTheHouseElf
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Re: Any advice on starting a business in Crete?

Postby DobbyTheHouseElf » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:34 pm

Kilkis wrote:I think what the discussion illustrates is the difference between a "business idea" and a "business plan". As an ex-business manager I would say DobbyThehouseElf has a "business idea" but, as yet, he doesn't have a "business plan". Most people I know regard starting a business in Greece as the nine levels of hell as portrayed in Dante's Inferno rolled into one. Ending a business is infinitely worse. Operating a business in Greece involves dealing with the tax office, who model their activities as a cross between the extortion and protection rackets of the Mafia.

Have fun.

Warwick

Everything seems to be detering me ,from the comments here ,the government tax rules and even the Mrs.I really want to do it but she is not keen and says no.I cannot speak Greek so what chance would I of even getting a loan? Unless I got an accountant who spoke english who was willing to help. Whats the point in working hard at an idea if everything will be taken in taxes?

Kilkis
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Re: Any advice on starting a business in Crete?

Postby Kilkis » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:00 pm

DobbyTheHouseElf wrote:...Hi been back to consulting the Mrs! .She was born here 57 years ago and grew up in Chania ...


DobbyTheHouseElf wrote:...Everything seems to be detering me ,from the comments here ,the government tax rules and even the Mrs.I really want to do it but she is not keen and says no... Whats the point in working hard at an idea if everything will be taken in taxes?


Your Mrs sounds like a very sensible person to me with a wealth of experience. I know who I would listen to.

Warwick

TweetTweet
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Re: Any advice on starting a business in Crete?

Postby TweetTweet » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:07 pm

I just tried to reply (and it disappeared) to say (essentially) that we are on the same page re olive harvest and the pruning story - ditto to Jeff. I had got the idea that you were doing the harvest in the relatively small window of opportunity, and then leaving the clean up (or at least the other farmers were) until totaly inappriorate late spring/summer months when having a fire is madness.

Please please please take heed of this comment from Kilkis)

I think what the discussion illustrates is the difference between a "business idea" and a "business plan". As an ex-business manager I would say DobbyThehouseElf has a "business idea" but, as yet, he doesn't have a "business plan". Most people I know regard starting a business in Greece as the nine levels of hell as portrayed in Dante's Inferno rolled into one. Ending a business is infinitely worse. Operating a business in Greece involves dealing with the tax office, who model their activities as a cross between the extortion and protection rackets of the Mafia.

Many years ago I visited Dante's alleged birthplace in Florence - I felt a chill :)

This is a real question/offer - might you like a *buckling* (castrated male goat) -without their hormones they do not smell at all, they are great companions and they re-cycle everything. I have 5 young chaps who I would preferentially not send for slaughter but due to slightly changed circumstances, I am unable to keep them al.

DobbyTheHouseElf
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Re: Any advice on starting a business in Crete?

Postby DobbyTheHouseElf » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:23 pm

thank you v.much for your kind offer Sir .I wonder how useful a castrated male goat would be to me? i suspect it might make some fresh dog meat for Bebino and Mortis?If you include several large bottles of your Rakki or homemade wine I may reconsider!

TweetTweet
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Re: Any advice on starting a business in Crete?

Postby TweetTweet » Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:02 pm

DobbyTheHouseElf wrote:thank you v.much for your kind offer Sir .I wonder how useful a castrated male goat would be to me? i suspect it might make some fresh dog meat for Bebino and Mortis?If you include several large bottles of your Rakki or homemade wine I may reconsider!

I'm female. A castrated male goat might be more inspirational than you might ever know.

I drink my own organic wine, occasionally I make raki but only use it for cleaning jobs. Doen't matter how *clean* the distillation process might be (and most are absolute crap), it is not a good drink.

From my perspective if you believe a beautiful boy goat (whether castrated or not) might only serve your dogs appetite(s), then I am truly sorry for you.

DobbyTheHouseElf
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Re: Any advice on starting a business in Crete?

Postby DobbyTheHouseElf » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:44 pm

TweetTweet wrote:
DobbyTheHouseElf wrote:thank you v.much for your kind offer Sir .I wonder how useful a castrated male goat would be to me? i suspect it might make some fresh dog meat for Bebino and Mortis?If you include several large bottles of your Rakki or homemade wine I may reconsider!

I'm female. A castrated male goat might be more inspirational than you might ever know.

I drink my own organic wine, occasionally I make raki but only use it for cleaning jobs. Doen't matter how *clean* the distillation process might be (and most are absolute crap), it is not a good drink.

From my perspective if you believe a beautiful boy goat (whether castrated or not) might only serve your dogs appetite(s), then I am truly sorry for you.

Oh sorry madam .I not sure I said I would kill it .No I just think if I brought a beautiful boy goat home and introduced him to the two boys ,Bebino and Mortis it wouldnt live long! its only use would then be as dog meat!
Last edited by DobbyTheHouseElf on Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:17 am, edited 2 times in total.

filippos
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Re: Any advice on starting a business in Crete?

Postby filippos » Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:29 am

TweetTweet wrote:.. raki ............., is not a good drink.
In your opinion. Some of us quite like it but I agree there are many different ones, some of which are not very pleasant.

Clio
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Re: Any advice on starting a business in Crete?

Postby Clio » Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:47 am

Absolutely. I don't think it can be arbitrarily dismissed as "not a good drink" - because the quality varies enormously, as Filippos says, Like any alcoholic drink it can be abused. But perhaps there are other "good" aspects to it. Like other originally moonshine alcohols - poteen, for instance - it has an important totemic significance. It's a drink of the people, something which has traditionally cocked a snook at authority, been affordable by all, and perhaps most importantly, is associated with the craic, with companionship, with eating and talking and socialising and yes, getting a bit merry and, essentially, "keeping the dark at bay".

Last night I shared two kafeneio karafakis of good raki with two friends over an hour or so. (Incidentally my first alcohol in a week, and I shan't drink again probably for another week). We ate paximadia and home-made cheese and olives and bits of liver and hard-boiled egg while drinking, and caught up on all the village gossip. Went home walking steadily, cheered and relaxed, thanks in part to the raki.

Enough philosophising. Sorry for further hijacking the thread.

Kilkis
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Re: Any advice on starting a business in Crete?

Postby Kilkis » Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:17 am

Personally I prefer Τσίπουρο from northern and central Greece, which is made in the same way as Τσικουδιά, i.e. from the residue of the grape pressing, but has a little γλυκάνισο in it. It tends to be drunk with the meal, especially starters or a fish meal, with quite a lot of ice, rather than after the meal. Freezing it causes it to flocculate.

Interestingly Τσίπουρο/Τσικουδιά, Grappa in Italy, which is also made in the same way as the Greek drinks and Poteen in Ireland are the only* spirits that the EU regulation allow to be made outside a bonded system because of their traditional nature. The Greek and Italian governments do allow it to be produced legally, albeit with a taxation applied, but the Irish government does not allow Poteen to be produced legally.

Why wouldn't these drinks vary. Because there is a single name with no brands people seem to be regarding it as a single brand. It isn't. Glenmorangie whiskey always tastes the same but different brands of whiskey taste very different. Raki in a local taverna is like a particular brand. You like one you don't like another. I love Glenmorangie but loathe and detest Laphroaig.

Warwick

* I am not sure about the situation in some of the more recent entry countries. For example I don't know if Сливова Ракия in Bulgaria can be produced locally outside the bonded system or only bonded.

DobbyTheHouseElf
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Re: Any advice on starting a business in Crete?

Postby DobbyTheHouseElf » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:19 am

filippos wrote:
TweetTweet wrote:.. raki ............., is not a good drink.
In your opinion. Some of us quite like it but I agree there are many different ones, some of which are not very pleasant.

I think the Lady meant it was not a good drink for the liver and your health ....otherwise its a good drink!


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