Brewery and glamping in crete

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jake_an_april
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Brewery and glamping in crete

Postby jake_an_april » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:45 pm

Hey all in Crete :)

Myself and partner April spent some time traveling west Crete earlier this year and fell completely head over heels in love with the Island, culture and people who live there. Really was a trip that we couldn't shake off once arriving back home in the UK, so much so that we have decided we want to relocate to Crete in the new year with plans on setting up our own business - a space where people can glamp and drink delicious beers brewed on site (small brewery 500L), and to share the space with locals/charities to run workshops events etc... My partner has a several years experience in hospitality and I in brewing.

After speaking with other business owners over there and how they set up in Crete we have become a little concerned due to all the Regulations/paper work - as we don't speak the language, do you think this would be an issue when coming to filling out paper work?

We would really appreciate any help, if anyone has any experience in stating a business in Crete or contacts that may help us answer these questions we would be very grateful!

We look forward to joining the wonderful community in Crete and get to know and learn from the locals, exciting times ahead!

Thankyou, look forward to hearing back from you

April and Jake

bobscott
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Re: Brewery and glamping in crete

Postby bobscott » Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:18 pm

Hi guys. Good luck! Confess to having had to look up the term glamping - but then I am an old fuddy duddy. Re your questions (without commenting on your ambitions) the two things you will need to have are a good lawyer and a good accountant. Others on this site can advise better than I, and will probably do so if you say where you are thinking of setting up the operation! As i said. Good luck. Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

Yin&Yang
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Re: Brewery and glamping in crete

Postby Yin&Yang » Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:25 pm

I wish you well. I do not have any direct experience however I have read on this forum I think, that businesses owned by foreigners are taxed quite high?
Someday is now : )

Jean
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Re: Brewery and glamping in crete

Postby Jean » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:58 pm

I think, that businesses owned by foreigners are taxed quite high?

What a strange concept! Do you really think that the state would be allowed to tax foreigners any different from Greeks?

But yes, taxation is VERY high practically forcing you to evade taxes if you want to make a living and not give it all to the state. Wanting to be totally legal is a thankless task.

Kilkis
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Re: Brewery and glamping in crete

Postby Kilkis » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:12 pm

I think Jean is right. The tax authority is an equal opportunity branch of the Mafia. They extort from every business equally. There is one difference, however. If you do face legal action by the tax authority and you are Greek you will certainly know the brother of someone who has a Kombaros who is the cousin of somebody whose neighbour is the uncle of someone who can make the action go away. You won't have that network.

If you think opening a business is difficult wait until you try to close it.

Warwick

Yin&Yang
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Re: Brewery and glamping in crete

Postby Yin&Yang » Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:09 am

I got that wrong then, sorry everybody. Good to know what I thought isn't the case at all.
Someday is now : )

Guy M
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Re: Brewery and glamping in crete

Postby Guy M » Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:57 am

Bob is right - a good lawyer and accountant is the place to start.

Here’s a good accountant. (I’ve copied the footer from an email they sent me).

Atsalakis & Partners - Tax Oasis

“The only office specialized in providing tax and accounting advice to non-Greeks. Accounting, tax advice and business consulting”
Post address:
Kanteraki-Atsalaki Niki or Atsalakis George
6, Tzanakaki str., 1st floor, office Nr. 8, GR- 73134, CHANIA, CRETE, GREECE, tel.:0030-28210-28469, mobile 0030-6944768871, email: atsalak@otenet.gr http://www.cretanaccountant.gr

Carolina
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Re: Brewery and glamping in crete

Postby Carolina » Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:05 pm

Camping is regulated and you will need to obtain an EOT licence to run a campsite. You could start here for info / contact www.greececamping.gr .

The info for requirements for the licence are here in Greek (could be out of date - you can use Google translate to get a rough translation or use the above link for contacts) -
https://www.dikaiologitika.gr/dikaiolog ... i-kampingk
It says ' For the granting of the Special Operating Sign to Camping Tourist Sites the eligibility of the land and the architectural study must be approved by the Technical Service of the local EOT CTP and the technical and
functional specifications as well as the criteria to be graded, according to art. 530992/1987 (Government Gazette 557 / B)' For the technical paperwork you would need a civil engineer. Many civil engineers do this and also can get the full details of requirements and apply for the EOT licence for you.

Be aware also that it mentions EU citizens & non-EU (after Brexit if UK citizens) may not be able to get this, or other business', licence (? first question for the lawyer/accoutant ).

Brewing beer is a seperate business and highly regulated. Some contact info here www.ellinikienosizithopoion.gr/?page_id=236&lang=en

In effect you would probably have to get licences for two new businesses, going through all the requirements and costs for each.

You would need to speak to a lawyer, civil engineer and accountant. The regulations and ongoing business taxes will make it difficult to set up and run .. and that's assuming you do it before Brexit if you are both UK citizens.

YoMo2
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Re: Brewery and glamping in crete

Postby YoMo2 » Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:19 pm

You obviously need to wait until well after Brexit to see how you stand as non-EU citizens trying to operate a business in Greece. I expect it will only take 5 years or so before the Greek state has sorted out all the new rules.

But really, good luck.

Andrew

Jean
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Re: Brewery and glamping in crete

Postby Jean » Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:56 pm

I expect it will only take 5 years or so before the Greek state has sorted out all the new rules.

But why would there be a need for new rules? There already are existing rules that apply to non-EU citizens

YoMo2
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Re: Brewery and glamping in crete

Postby YoMo2 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:11 am

Jean wrote:
I expect it will only take 5 years or so before the Greek state has sorted out all the new rules.

But why would there be a need for new rules? There already are existing rules that apply to non-EU citizens


True, but "they" love any opportunity to turn everything upside down.... :)

Andrew

john4d
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Re: Brewery and glamping in crete

Postby john4d » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:43 am

In effect you would probably have to get licences for two new businesses, going through all the requirements and costs for each.


If you have two businesses won't you be assessed for tax on both seperately?
There's no such thing as a bad taste joke

Kilkis
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Re: Brewery and glamping in crete

Postby Kilkis » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:26 pm

It depends what you mean by separately, John.

When it comes to things like business taxes, e.g. VAT, corporation tax etc each business would have its own AFM and those taxes would be levied on each business separately.

When it comes to the owner of the business taking income from the business, e.g. as a salary or dividends, then he would be would have his own AFM and would be taxed on the total amount taken from both businesses. It's only like someone having two pensions. You declare them both, they get added together and you are taxed on the total.

The big problem in Greece is that the tax authority believes that every business is under-declaring its income so whatever you declare they tend to arbitrarily increase it. It can also be difficult to get them to accept allowable expenses so you can end up being taxed on the gross income of the business rather than the net. I am not saying it is universal but it does happen quite a lot. Two friends, who had quite a large olive farm that they registered as a business and sold the oil, worked out that last year they paid more in tax than they received in income. They're not in Crete anymore.

Warwick

Carolina
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Re: Brewery and glamping in crete

Postby Carolina » Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:36 pm

john4d wrote:
In effect you would probably have to get licences for two new businesses, going through all the requirements and costs for each.


If you have two businesses won't you be assessed for tax on both seperately?


A small business, owned by a single person 'Ατομική Επιχείρηση' and a self employed person 'Ελέυθερος Επαγγελματίας' basically have to go through the same hoops to start a business/ trade/work as freelance in Greece. There is no personal tax allowance for either. Tax is paid on net income/profit from the first euro. National Insurance for the self employed/business owner is also compulsory.

There's more on the procedures of starting a small business here (in Greek) http://www.forologikanea.gr/index.php?m ... lay&id=575

paul g
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Re: Brewery and glamping in crete

Postby paul g » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:55 pm

Basically, if you want to start a business in Greece, skip the accountants, the lawyers,civil engineers and architects, go straight to a good psychiatrist.


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