Flying Crete - UK

[Maud]

Sorry Warwick, you took me too literally there! It was herd immunity through vaccination that eradicated smallpox. As you are aware, it is a term used for vaccination as well as immunity through infection. What scares me is the thought of uncontrolled spread of a virus to achieve it!

I also saw the news shots of Harry McGuire at the nightclub/party. Mykonos has been making headlines for a week or two re young people partying and not socially distancing.....yet it continues to happen. I don’t think the youngsters there are worrying about the slogan.....’Don’t kill granny.’

[shine on]

I’ve said this before, distance is the answer.

Regarding the 1918 pandemic after relaxing social distancing measures, San Francisco faced a long second wave of deaths.

‘In 1918, the studies found, the key to flattening the curve was social distancing‘

I know this virus is different, probably worse, but the rules are still the same. I keep my distance, it’s my best hope, and the world has hope if they get it right this winter, kill it winter time and next year the economy can start to grow.

[Guy M]

For the record:

We wore masks properly throughout our time in Crete and in the U.K. Not this “mask over mouth only”, “mask on chin” or “no mask” stuff you often see in Crete (more so than where we live in the U.K.).

Our house in Crete is in a field - cramped housing is likely a major cause of transmission given the places in the U.K. where infections have been going up recently. The isolation of the house and basic sense made social distancing easier to achieve..

I haven’t been to a mass gathering for a very long time. I did get taken to a football match at Fulham in January but that’s a somewhat loose description of “crowd”.

My daughters follow social distancing with great attention - the younger one didn’t go out of the house, apart from to go rowing with her sister, from March to July. Not all young people like to party in mass groups.

We continue to social distance now back in the U.K.

There is probably a balance between going back to how things were and never travelling or mixing again. Both the extremes will reduce life expectancy either because of the virus or because of the economic impact. Finding that balance is hard and I don’t envy anyone in government trying to do so at the moment.

[chrissyg]

Exactly Guy. Everyone wants to to blame someone else, thd goverments, the tourists, and now young people, and it really is really people not following the social distancing. I feel sorry for young people that have had to go through this and all i said was that they are the ones who have to come out and take the risks of going out more, going back to college, etc and ithe lockdown easing is still a risk, but as you say it is a balance.. The majority are not going to raves. When i said that young people were fine with the virus, i meant biologically and the majority are,thats a fact and they are the ones that will have to be even more careful not to spread it because most of them will be asymptomatic.

[Kamisiana]

For the record:

We wore masks properly throughout our time in Crete and in the U.K. Not this “mask over mouth only”, “mask on chin” or “no mask” stuff you often see in Crete (more so than where we live in the U.K.).

Our house in Crete is in a field - cramped housing is likely a major cause of transmission given the places in the U.K. where infections have been going up recently. The isolation of the house and basic sense made social distancing easier to achieve..

I haven’t been to a mass gathering for a very long time. I did get taken to a football match at Fulham in January but that’s a somewhat loose description of “crowd”.

My daughters follow social distancing with great attention - the younger one didn’t go out of the house, apart from to go rowing with her sister, from March to July. Not all young people like to party in mass groups.

We continue to social distance now back in the U.K.

There is probably a balance between going back to how things were and never travelling or mixing again. Both the extremes will reduce life expectancy either because of the virus or because of the economic impact. Finding that balance is hard and I don’t envy anyone in government trying to do so at the moment.

For the record
How did you and your family get on with social distancing for 7 hours or so each way in the airports and on aircraft ?

[Guy M]

Taxi to/from airports, sat in back.
Bristol airport v empty on way out Chania lots of space on way back,
No one else in our row on plane (and row behind empty on way back)

Social distancing hard on bus from terminal to plane at Chania. Also had to be careful of people in queue at arrivals in both Chania and Bristol, though in both cases everyone had face masks.

[Kamisiana]

Oh thanks Guy
I do find it a tad hypocritical when some feel it is not safe to send their kids to school on plague island but willing to take their family through airports and aircraft full of people from said plague island,
But it's a free world mostly, and we all have our opinions views and morals.
Ps sober as a judge

[chrissyg]

We did last month. It was horrible wearing a mask for that long but they really were careful at the airport and on the flight. Shops were obeying the usual rules. On the flight you werent allowed to wait in the aisle to go to the loo and there were sanitisers everywhere. No magazines. Staff all had masks on. You are closer than 2m but mostly behind each other. I would say it was very safe.
.

[Kamisiana]

I know and have no problem if people like yourself choose to fly, but some people have double standards.

[Maud]

This is not about a ‘blame game’ Chrssyg. If you believe so, then you are misjudging the situation. Guy is correct, not all young people are going to parties and raves. His well brought up daughters clearly know better.....and are also not in the late teens/early twenties age group that are attending them in general.

However such activities have become such a problem that the U.K. Government is now going to impose a £10,000 fine for the organisers of them, and also escalating fines for the attendees. - This is not about a few people turning up at a house and having a spontaneous party. I understand from news reports that it is about large gatherings encouraged on social media......and even branded as ‘Corvid19 Parties.’ Thousands of youngsters attend. Perhaps you would like to justify that as not being irresponsible and selfish Chrissyg?

There will always be exceptions to every rule, but whilst such behaviour is ‘excused’ by some as being young people enjoying themselves, and also them not likely to be seriously ill from the virus anyway, it sends the wrong message out to other youngsters.

These ‘raves’ are doing nothing to help the economy. The behaviour of some youngsters is inexcusable. It would be very wrong to ‘brand’ all young people as such, but the message should be continually re-enforced that such behaviour is unacceptable, - not excused as young people going out and helping get the economy back on track.

Finally, as for the Government......I believe they have had some very difficult issues to deal with, but it is HOW one deals with them that attracts criticism or not. The recent ‘balls up’ over exam grades says it all. They have had since March to sort this out, then they make a ‘world class mess’ of it in August! There is no excuse for that.

[Kilkis]

The government have known since January that test-trace-isolate is the only solution short of a vaccine or a cure. WHO have said it loudly, repeatedly and continuously since then. South Korea had an effective test-trace-isolate system in place in February. It is not perfect but it has worked and allowed them to control the virus with very limited lockdown, e.g. size of gatherings, shutting of nightclubs, and very little damage to their economy. That proves that it can be done and done quickly. We are now approaching September and the UK still does not have an effective test-trace-isolate system in place and doesn't look like it will ever have one. There is only one group of people responsible for that failure and that is the UK government.

The population of South Korea is not much smaller than the UK at 52 million. Its population density is much higher at 500 per sq km compared to the UK at 275 per sq km. The UK is the 6th richest country in the world compared to South Korea at 12th. South Korea experienced imported cases much earlier than the UK so had less time to prepare. South Korea had an early major outbreak, due to the activities of a church, whilst it grew fairly steadily in the UK. What excuse does the government have to explain why South Korea could do it effectively and the UK couldn't? I'm sure Cummings will think of one.

Within every demographic group there are people who act responsibly and people who don't. At the moment the evidence suggests that the virus is spreading more quickly among the young which means that the young are the ones who are behaving least responsibly. It is not a question of blame. The figures tell the story. We cannot deny reality.

Warwick

[Kamisiana]

Seems the Greeks don't get it either as 1500 try to attend a wedding party (must be fake news)
http://www.haniotika-nea.gr/gamos-se-qu ... ta-chania/

[Maud]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... SApp_Other

This wasn’t someone with a grudge against the Government, just an intelligent person with practical experience at the ‘sharp end.’ Even some of his own colleagues disagreed with him, as they didn’t want to spread panic......or believe it themselves. Avoiding facts and statistics will not make things go away. There are too many ostriches In the U.K. Government. They are incapable of dealing with facts when presented with them. Even Conservative activists are appearing on tv in the U.K. saying how disappointed they are with how so many situations have been handled.

We now have Dido Harding heading the new National Institute for Health Protection. This person ‘pushed‘ for Cheltenham Races to take place....which caused a spike in the virus in the area, - as well as county wide. (She is an amateur jockey and on the main board of the Jockey Club. - No personal interest there then!). She messed up as Chief Executive of TalkTalk, and as for the track, test and trace......! She has no experience in ‘Health‘ and her only qualification for the job is being a Conservative life peer and a friend of Boris Johnson’s.

We all make mistakes in life but the U.K. Government does not seem capable of learning from them. Bad decisions and incompetence seem to be the order of the day. The virus isn’t to blame for everything. It is how we deal with disasters that we measure people and governments by.

By the way.....what has happened to the ‘oven ready deal’ Johnson told us about getting re that ‘dreaded word?’ - He was 99% sure of getting everything the U.K. wanted at the time. How can anyone claim to have something already (Oven ready) when It is not? Either it IS ready, or things still need to be discussed and agreed. In the case if the latter he should not promise things he cannot not guarantee. It is misleading and falsely raises people’s expectations. So far this Government seems to be unable to ‘deliver’ on so many of its promises.

Unless there is a reliable method of for track and trace soon, the U.K. will have economic collapse, many more deaths, and be a country that has alienated all its ‘neighbours.’ - Bleak times and many disappointments ahead?

[shine on]

And let’s not forget the millions wasted on bodge/failed equipment that was ordered.

[solitude1]

Sorry Ladies and Gents i meant the Lidl near Tesmes which does not seem to be bothered about face masks,
and the security guard just stands outside eating and does not worry who goes in without a mask.