Greece to blame again?

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SteveH
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Re: Greece to blame again?

Postby SteveH » Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:35 pm

I must reluctantly admit that I am struggling to see anything other than the heart & mind of the US in all of this. :(

As for Greece & its people:-

The preservation of deceits always requires a "Scapegoat".

Such is the work of any & all Inquisitions.

A complex wrong rendered simply right.

Take a kind & wise old lady, who understands & openly administers to the hurts of all.

Consumed, & few eye's will see the true sacrifice.


I'm just a little melancholic ATM. :(

bobscott
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Re: Greece to blame again?

Postby bobscott » Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:15 pm

SteveH wrote:I must reluctantly admit that I am struggling to see anything other than the heart & mind of the US in all of this. :(

As for Greece & its people:-

The preservation of deceits always requires a "Scapegoat".

Such is the work of any & all Inquisitions.

A complex wrong rendered simply right.

Take a kind & wise old lady, who understands & openly administers to the hurts of all.

Consumed, & few eye's will see the true sacrifice.


I'm just a little melancholic ATM. :(


Have another raki!
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

mouche
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Re: Greece to blame again?

Postby mouche » Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:35 pm

bobscott wrote:
mouche wrote:
You may find it "intereseting" but hopefulle by now you know (and understand?) why? We see nothing strange in Natoforces on manoeuver in our country led by nationals from other countries but for a brit this may seem strange, maybe, but then again for a brit many things seem strange since Britain rules the waves and then some. Ot at least did at one time!


I said 'Interesting' alluding to the fact that Germany is one of those pillorying Greece for not doing more.


I totally agree with Germany that Greece is not doing enough/should-could do more!

SteveH
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Re: Greece to blame again?

Postby SteveH » Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:11 pm

bobscott wrote:Have another raki!


Thanks Bob, much appreciated. :)

Carolina
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Re: Greece to blame again?

Postby Carolina » Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:42 pm

Yes, Greece is being made the scapegoat here once again. Europe was taken by surprise by the sudden huge numbers of refugees and migrants and they just don't know how to handle it. Greece is overwhelmed with the scale of this tragedy and instead of helping, the EU is just blaming. Greece is still waiting on promised finger-printing machines from the EU, and funds etc..

So now we have NATO ships in the Aegean, There have been no refugee boat crossings for 2/3 days to Lesvos , although it is thought this is due to the weather (although warm, there are strong winds in the area and dangerous seas), rather than the presence of NATO. It is expected that boats will start crossing again from tomorrow (Tuesday) as the winds are forecast to drop. What is going to happen then? I fear we shall see tomorrow and this week.

At the same time, I am actually going to be in Lesvos tomorrow for a week volunteering. Hoping and praying (in a sense!) that this is all not going to result in an even larger humanitarian disaster.

( Added ; And I'm not even discussing here the terrible increase in bombings in Syria by Turkey and the amassing of Saudi troops and war planes on the southern Turkish air base.)

bobscott
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Re: Greece to blame again?

Postby bobscott » Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:55 am

Carolina wrote:
At the same time, I am actually going to be in Lesvos tomorrow for a week volunteering. Hoping and praying (in a sense!) that this is all not going to result in an even larger humanitarian disaster.

( Added ; And I'm not even discussing here the terrible increase in bombings in Syria by Turkey and the amassing of Saudi troops and war planes on the southern Turkish air base.)


Well done you Carol! Good luck.

BTW: the 3 ships are Turkish Barbaros, Canadian Fredericton and German Bonn (according to news today). All 3 spent time in Souda port a few days ago. Hope they are successful in their mission.

Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

Clio
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Re: Greece to blame again?

Postby Clio » Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:22 am

I am actually going to be in Lesvos tomorrow for a week volunteering


Good on you, Carol. It's this practical humane response - the compassionate concern of one ordinary human being for another- which has been the one shining good thing about the refugee crisis. It helps a bit to mitigate one's bleak disenchantment with the political processes which are proving so inadequate and inappropriate. Sto kalo.

Carolina
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Re: Greece to blame again?

Postby Carolina » Thu Feb 25, 2016 1:15 am

Report from Platanos beach camp rescue boat, north Lesvos 18th Feb on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/solidarityplatanos/?fref=ts I also heard this firsthand at a briefing at the camp:
"The refugees that arrived yesterday at Platanos Camp, were soaking wet and in shock, because as they explained to us, the Turkish coastguard tried to force them to return to the Turkish coast with the use of threats, by creating artificial waves and by the extensive use of water cannons. Two of the boats returned to the Turkish coast with all the passengers in shock. The remaining two boats managed to break through and reached Skala Sykamias, Lesvos.
Image
Today at 3 o'clock in the morning, the Greek Coastguard attempts to stop a new boat from reaching the coast at Skala Sykamia resulted in a havoc and the boat almost crashed on sharp rocks. The accident was prevented at the last moment by the intervention of the rescue boat belonging to the team 'Sea Rescue'.

This morning:
Turkish coastguard was sighted from the 'Korakas' Observation Post to repeat its deliberate attacks to boats in the middle of the sea, again by the use of water cannons."

This is Turkey working with the Eu??

mouche
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Re: Greece to blame again?

Postby mouche » Thu Feb 25, 2016 8:10 am

Technically all these people are illegal immigrants who break the law. I could mention a few other countries that would treat them in the same way, possibly even worse. The problem in my opinion is that they should be given the possibility to apply for asylum in Turkey (for the country they choose) rather than "having" to risk what they are risking today. This is now turned into an industry where the criminals appearently make more money by smuggling people than smuggling drugs.

This is a case where there is no "quick fix" or easy solution but at times I do wish people could come up with something "better" than just critisism!

Loretta9

Re: Greece to blame again?

Postby Loretta9 » Thu Feb 25, 2016 8:49 am

If Russia still had a spineless leader as in Yeltsin the USA and Britain would be all over Assad and Syria. But thankfully Putin is the man of the moment. He has guts and will not be pushed around. He also has 85% support from his people. I say this because Cameron and Obama dont know what to do since Putin decided to use positive action.
A deal was done with Turkey, behind the scenes. Turkey wants EU membership and is in fact on the short list for eventual membership. So they are acting at the behest of EU and Obama to earn their ticket into EU.
The Elephant in the room is Israel. So a tiny country like Greece is taking the brunt. Regardless of size its economy is rock bottom and the EU Commission sit twiddling their thumbs. It is deliberate.
The EU has failed. Open borders is about cheap labour and an expansion of the Corporate empire. Its preparation for Ttip.
A great country such as Greece with its history and influence on the whole planet now has no sovereignty. Thus fat men in suits - many with a questionable past, an EU which has NEVER had its books audited is destroying countries all for the love of corporate power and the banks.

Clio
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Re: Greece to blame again?

Postby Clio » Thu Feb 25, 2016 5:05 pm

I do wish people could come up with something "better" than just critisism!


Carolina has come up with something better. She has gone to offer practical help to people less fortunate than herself. And her despatch is not "just criticism" but a front-line account of events that need reporting.

mouche
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Re: Greece to blame again?

Postby mouche » Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:21 pm

Clio wrote:
I do wish people could come up with something "better" than just critisism!


Carolina has come up with something better. She has gone to offer practical help to people less fortunate than herself. And her despatch is not "just criticism" but a front-line account of events that need reporting.


Yes, I'm aware of that and she has my deepest respect for having done this! In other words she is the exception to the rule.

Maud
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Re: Greece to blame again?

Postby Maud » Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:30 pm

Thank you for your 'post' Carolina. It is useful to know what is happening at the 'coal face.' I have nothing but praise for you and your fellow volunteers for the huge effort you are making in a difficult situation.

I see that Greece has recalled its Ambassador from Austria today re an Austrian meeting with the Balkan States to which Greece was not invited. (BBC News web page has a report in depth). It would be really interesting to know what people (like yourself) who are dealing with the migrants on a daily basis feel is the best course of action. This is an impossible situation in that Greece can only do so much, yet some other countries are not happy to help out.

The only solution I can see is an end to the war in Syria........and that is a long way off, - if ever! It also does not answer the question about what to do with migrants from other countries! There was a man from Afghanistan interviewed at Calais on UK television this week. He admitted his life was not in danger in his own country and said he wanted to come to the UK for a better future. - Human nature.......but such a statement will alienate many people in EU countries. I can understand people wanting a better life, and I can certainly understand people wanting a safer life, I just don't know what the answer is long term. - At least you are doing something worthwhile at the moment. Well done.

Tim
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Re: Greece to blame again?

Postby Tim » Thu Feb 25, 2016 8:17 pm

I see that Greece has recalled its Ambassador from Austria today re an Austrian meeting with the Balkan States to which Greece was not invited.


Looks like there's a lot going on in the background. I would imagine that Greece is beside itself with worry in case said Balkan states close their land borders with Greece. With migrants still arriving and presumably a lot more to come as the weather improves, this may prove catastrophic for the Greek state.

Tim

Carolina
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Re: Greece to blame again?

Postby Carolina » Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:07 pm

Regarding the locals in Lesvos - many of them were themselves refugees from Smyrna in the 1920's, so they understand what it is like for the refugees and react with humanity. They've actually been helping for years , especially those living on the seafront. They see people in need of help and they react as human beings. Many locals have offered warehouses for free for storage of donations, fisherman tell with pride about how many boats they have guided to shore, cafe and hotel owners baked trays of cakes every day before the volunteers arrived and took them down to the beaches, women grabbed their daughters and granddaughter's clothes to give to the shivering children and their mothers as they arrived.

I don't have the answers Maud, but safe passage by opening the official Greece/ Turkey land borders for refugees would stop most people having to put theirs, and their chidren's lives at risk. There's a good article here https://euobserver.com/opinion/132309 .. quote "Instead of desperately trying to stem the flow, the EU should be taking concrete steps to manage the flow, crucially through: working with Greece to open official border crossings on the Greek land borders where asylum seekers could be screened and permitted to enter; by ensuring efficient relocation of asylum seekers from countries of first entry to other member states; and by vastly expanding the orderly resettlement of refugees from Turkey and other countries of first refuge into the EU."


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