Welcome to Greece - Enjoy your Hotel

Chat and items of interest about Crete and Greece.
Kilkis
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Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Welcome to Greece - Enjoy your Hotel

Postby Kilkis » Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:17 pm

I did learn a bit more about it, Bob.

Apparently vaccination data is stored on your NHS record. Anybody can download an NHS App, which gives them the ability to order repeat prescriptions. That App can, in principle, access whether you have been vaccinated but your GP has to enable that access. Some GPs are enabling the access automatically while others are doing so on an opt in basis. That should mean that anybody who wishes to travel on the basis of their vaccination status ought to be able to get an official vaccination record simply by installing the NHS App on their smart phone and asking their GP to enable access to that record on the NHS system.

The results of PCR and lateral flow test data are not accessible by the NHS App but they are, in principle, accessible with the Test and Trace App. That should mean that anybody who wishes to travel on the basis of their test status ought to be able to install the Test and Trace App and use it to access their test results.

I would imagine that the fact that you have had COVID and recovered would also be stored on your NHS records together with any blood tests showing a high level of COVID anti-bodies. That should mean that anybody who wants to travel on that basis ought to be able to access proof using the NHS App.

It is highly likely that both Apps would need some minor tweaks to present the data in an acceptable form but that is a trivial exercise compared to developing a completely new COVID Travel App, capable of accessing two completely different and incompatible databases, run by two different organisations,which seems to be the government's preferred choice.

Warwick

Mixos
Posts: 523
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:26 am
Location: North East Crete or S.W.England

Re: Welcome to Greece - Enjoy your Hotel

Postby Mixos » Sat May 01, 2021 10:08 am

I can confirm all that you say above regarding the NHS app, Warwick, although I'm not sure that a minor tweak will be sufficient to present vaccine information in an easily readable form for -- for example -- Greek immigration staff. The app is user-friendly enough, with a short menu on the home page. In the section "GP Health Record" there's a sub-section "Consultations and Events" which includes evidence of vaccinations, with the date, location, vaccine type, batch number and name of the person administering the jab. But as it's a timeline, any other consultations or events, such as test results or GP appointments, are listed between the two vaccine dates which are three months apart. Therefore, in order to show this information at departure/immigration you would first need to log on to your NHS app then navigate to the list, then spool up and down to identify the two vaccine events -- all with a long queue of passengers behind you! It's not really a viable option in that form. A QR code would be much better and I can't see how the app could be adapted to provide one, but perhaps someone is working on it.

Kilkis
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Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Welcome to Greece - Enjoy your Hotel

Postby Kilkis » Sat May 01, 2021 11:46 am

Well I don't know for certain but I would imagine that your NHS data is stored as a relational database. When you tap on "Consultations and Events" it activates a query form that interrogates the database and displays all events on a time line. To implement a second query form called "Vaccination Data" that activates a filtered search and only displays vaccination data is a pretty trivial exercise for a database programmer. Once you have constructed the database and filled it with data having different query forms is very easy.

An alternative solution would be to run a filtered search on the computer storing the database to produce a file that contains the vaccination data. They could then store a QR code on your NHS record that links to that file and put the QR code on the mobile App.

Both solutions are easy to implement. Integrating different databases so a single App can present all types of information, i.e. Vaccination data, PCR test data, Lateral Flow test data, antibody test data, is much more problematic.

Warwick

bobscott
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Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:36 pm
Location: Kokkino Horio

Re: Welcome to Greece - Enjoy your Hotel

Postby bobscott » Sat May 01, 2021 4:39 pm

All that sounds very interesting, and it could prove to be a fascinating longer term project. But given the UK's recent track record on designing complex apps, you could be in for a long wait. Right now though, something more immediate is required. It's a bit like setting out to design a Porsche full of bells and whistles when all you really need to get to the next village for the next month or so is a Ford Popular with 'semaphore' indicators (shows my age) or even a donkey. The longer the dither, the more frustrating it will get for those who want to get away for a while! Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

Mixos
Posts: 523
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:26 am
Location: North East Crete or S.W.England

Re: Welcome to Greece - Enjoy your Hotel

Postby Mixos » Sat May 01, 2021 6:39 pm

That's both of us showing our age then, Bob. My first car was a 1956 Morris Minor with the split windscreen and semaphore indicators. It was already pretty delapidated when I acquired it in 1969 for £35. That was almost three weeks' wages in the job I was doing then! But on your substantive point about the NHS app, I agree that something simple and immediate is required. Let's hope someone IS working on it.. they've had long enough to think about it.

Kilkis
Posts: 12829
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Welcome to Greece - Enjoy your Hotel

Postby Kilkis » Sat May 01, 2021 9:41 pm

I completely agree with you, Bob, that the UK government and the NHS in particular have a disastrous record at implementing IT projects. That is the whole point of my argument. The NHS App already exists and works. The Test and Trace App already exists and works. Making minor modifications to two working Apps in order to present existing data in a suitable format is not a long term project. Each one is something that two IT specialists, one App developer and one database programmer, working together could achieve in about 1 day. Designing a new App that does everything, which is the governments preferred solution, is a long term project.

Warwick

Kilkis
Posts: 12829
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Welcome to Greece - Enjoy your Hotel

Postby Kilkis » Wed May 12, 2021 12:47 pm

According to a BBC News article today it looks like the UK government has seen sense and is simply implementing a new control on the existing NHS App that will display your vaccination data without showing any other data and without needing your GP to authorise it. Exactly the solution I suggested. Nothing yet on test results but I suspect that they will implement this as a separate control on the NHS Test & Trace App since that already has access to the relevant data. If you are travelling you just show whichever is appropriate or both if necessary. Paper versions available for those who don't have the technology.

Warwick

Kilkis
Posts: 12829
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Welcome to Greece - Enjoy your Hotel

Postby Kilkis » Thu May 13, 2021 6:22 pm

The Greek minister of tourism was interviewed on BBC Hard Talk on 11 May. He was not given an easy time. You can watch it here but I think you will need a VPN connected to a UK server.

Warwick

Yorgo
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat May 05, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: Welcome to Greece - Enjoy your Hotel

Postby Yorgo » Fri May 14, 2021 8:13 am

Its one thing to acquiesce jumping through hoops to facilitate travel and an appearance of "getting my freedom back". Its another to subserve to a orders based on no empirical evidence.
It is a fact people are suffering and dying from taking the vaccine. It is a fact no one knows what is in the vaccines. It is a fact no one can sue Pfeizer or Astro Zenecka. The basic right to apply Common Law in pursuit of a Negligence law-suit has been removed. It is a fact, any and all people who speak against the vaccines are removed, deleted, censored, sacked or even arrested. I wonder why?

I fail to see how people are so ecstatic when they say they have had the vaccine. Some are so excited its as if they have won the Lottery.
I am NOT saying people do not have the right to choose. I am simply astounded by the mass acceptance with not one quibble of a challenge.

I was in Birmingham last week, walking around. I did not see one single person - cough, splutter, sneeze, struggle, stop to take a breath, ask for help, look dizzy or feint. Not one and there was thousands of people. Likewise in many big towns and cities I have been to.
I simply ask: During a Killer Pandemic Virus - (this is what we are told - the official line) it seems perfectly logical to see sick people.
Perhaps the Flu is under control.

evansmr1
Posts: 361
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:00 pm
Location: Pirgos, Kalo Horio,

Re: Welcome to Greece - Enjoy your Hotel

Postby evansmr1 » Fri May 14, 2021 10:27 am

Stop reading the alternative Press and listening to stupid Podcasts. Read the real facts

If you want to believe the contents of your post that is up to you. The rest of us sane people listen to the scientific information. I have a Neighbour, who like you, reads the sort of stupid crap that has no scientific bearing. Not one , I repeat not one of his predictions have come true.

I suggest that you stay in Birmingham and enjoy yourself. Deniers like you really piss me off. I have had Family and friends who have caught this nasty virus. One almost died from it, but thanks to the care of the NHI survived. I have another friend (Expat) living here who also caught the virus in UK and was laid up for months. He has recovered but is a former shadow of himself.

Once again, you stay with your denier friends and keep your filth to yourself.

I celebrated once I had received my second vaccination.
Mike
=============
Sic parvis magnaike

Jean
Posts: 1116
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:39 pm
Location: West Crete
Contact:

Re: Welcome to Greece - Enjoy your Hotel

Postby Jean » Fri May 14, 2021 11:09 am

It is a fact no one knows what is in the vaccines

Really?

Kilkis
Posts: 12829
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Welcome to Greece - Enjoy your Hotel

Postby Kilkis » Fri May 14, 2021 4:05 pm

You should look at the real facts, Yorgo, not those supplied by idiots.

A very, very, very tiny number of people have experienced any form of severe reaction to the vaccines and a very, very very tiny proportion of those have died. Millions have died from the virus.

The MHRA, the EMA, the CDC/FDA know exactly what is in the different vaccines down to the minutest detail. Every single batch is tested to show that it conforms to the standard formulation.

In the UK the vaccines were authorised by MHRA under emergency use regulations. Under those regulations it is indeed true that you cannot sue the companies directly but the government has a compensation scheme for anybody who suffers severe side effects. In the EU the EMA authorised vaccines under conditional use regulations. Those regulations do not indemnify the companies from liability and they can be sued.

You and a few others on here seem to be able to make completely inane and insane comments about vaccinations without being deleted. An analysis of millions of anti-vaccine posts revealed that over 75 % trace back to 11 individuals who are also multi-conspiracy theorists. You can choose to get your information from this handful of morons if you wish but the rest of us get our information from the millions of scientists and doctors world wide who are trying to save people's lives not trying to kill them.

Warwick

mrsbluenose
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:53 pm
Location: Neo Chorio

Re: Welcome to Greece - Enjoy your Hotel

Postby mrsbluenose » Fri May 14, 2021 4:20 pm

Thank you Mike and Warwick for expressing calmly and intelligently what I would have struggled to say without resorting to insults.

Stu

bobscott
Posts: 2926
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:36 pm
Location: Kokkino Horio

Re: Welcome to Greece - Enjoy your Hotel

Postby bobscott » Fri May 14, 2021 5:49 pm

Mike and Warwick: Seconded! Bob
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

Kilkis
Posts: 12829
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Welcome to Greece - Enjoy your Hotel

Postby Kilkis » Fri May 14, 2021 7:29 pm

For what it is worth, in my opinion the small number of people who initiate these misinformation campaigns are guilty of murder. They know the information is false. They know that disseminating the information will result in people dying. They continue to generate and disseminate the information with the intent of causing death with malice aforethought. I think most of the people involved in further spreading the information are guilty of being accessories to murder. Unfortunately it is extremely difficult to tie a specific death to a specific piece of misinformation so neither group will ever be charged. Just an opinion.

Warwick


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