Welcome to Greece - Enjoy your Hotel

Chat and items of interest about Crete and Greece.
johnr
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:29 pm

Re: Welcome to Greece - Enjoy your Hotel

Postby johnr » Sat May 15, 2021 1:55 pm

Warwick, these people really aren't worth responding to. However I applaud your response.
Just returned from AZ jab in Anogia Health Centre, feeling fine, haven't grown a second head and not squeaking!!

JR

Mixos
Posts: 523
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:26 am
Location: North East Crete or S.W.England

Re: Welcome to Greece - Enjoy your Hotel

Postby Mixos » Sat May 15, 2021 7:56 pm

An update on the comments earlier in this thread about the NHS app: As of today, as the UK government promised, the app has now been "tweaked" to allow any NHS patient to display their Covid19 vaccination record on a single page. So a screen grab could be taken to display at immigration/passport control without the need to log into the actual app using airport wifi. The screen shows the date of each vaccination, the name of the vaccine (Pfizer or A-Z) and the batch number. The great unknown is whether this is acceptable to Greek immigration, or whether they will still require a piece of paper with lots of stamps all over it.

Kilkis
Posts: 12832
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Welcome to Greece - Enjoy your Hotel

Postby Kilkis » Sat May 15, 2021 9:57 pm

I agree that it is an unknown, Mixos, but my gut feeling is that, in this particular case, the Greek government is more interested in accumulating tourists than accumulating official stamps. I realise that people will find this hard to believe, since it is the opposite of normality, but I think it is true.

My gut feeling is also that UK tourists are going to be disinclined to come to Greece until it is moved into the green category and I can't see that happening quickly. Many will be put off by the possibility of getting involved in costly tests or even higher cost hotel isolation. I am due to go to France in late August with my family, who live in the UK and some friends. My son's fear is not the possible cost of having to have multiple tests, of having to isolate or of missing work. His main fear is the possibility of being shut in a hotel room for 10 days with an eight year old.

Warwick

Tim
Posts: 729
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:41 pm
Location: Near Sitia
Contact:

Re: Welcome to Greece - Enjoy your Hotel

Postby Tim » Sat May 15, 2021 10:08 pm

And that works both ways. I have Greek friends who are travelling to the UK next week to see their two sons for the first time in a year. The flights cost them 38 euros each. They have spent 600 euros on the various tests and paperwork required to travel. (not to mention that they will have to spend the first ten days of their fourteen day holiday in self-isolation in their sons' house). This all isn't finished yet.

Tim

Kilkis
Posts: 12832
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Welcome to Greece - Enjoy your Hotel

Postby Kilkis » Sat May 15, 2021 10:21 pm

But does staying with their son count as self isolation?

Warwick

Tim
Posts: 729
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:41 pm
Location: Near Sitia
Contact:

Re: Welcome to Greece - Enjoy your Hotel

Postby Tim » Sat May 15, 2021 10:56 pm

Who knows? The rules and regulations in both countries long ago outstripped the capacity of my small εγκέφαλος to keep up. I find the fruits of my neighbour's small vineyard keeps me pleasantly detached. Like right now.

Tim

Yorgo
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat May 05, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: Welcome to Greece - Enjoy your Hotel

Postby Yorgo » Sun May 16, 2021 7:06 am

Note the reply about - resorting to insults ?? This is very common when an opinion varying from the accepted narrative is given. Tell me what it is that raises you to consider "resorting to insult" ? I merely expressed a view. That fact it goes against the perceived majority narrative should never be cause for "resorting to insult" Thats my mature take on this. But it is very common - cognitive dissonance.

I am happy to take on board the input from anyone showing the actual content, make-up of the vaccines. Its just a question. Please try not to get excited.
I note the excited answers, the snide answers, the dismissive answers, are from people who have claimed to taken the JAB. LOL
I have never insulted nor made snide remarks to any comments/person on this site. It seems the righteous feel a tad snow-flakey.

So lets be clear. is it an offence punishable by insult and snide remarks for a person to express a view which is perceived to go against the "norm" the main narrative. Is it a personal attack to state an objective view about a controversial subject?
You have the nice weather, blue skies, tavernas are open, etc etc and yet so much angst!!

Kamisiana
Posts: 498
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:06 pm

Re: Welcome to Greece - Enjoy your Hotel

Postby Kamisiana » Sun May 16, 2021 10:19 am

Yorgo that's the problem when the same small clique dominate with their opinions, you only have to look at the (Brexit and Living in Crete section) over the last few years. :wink:

Kilkis
Posts: 12832
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Welcome to Greece - Enjoy your Hotel

Postby Kilkis » Sun May 16, 2021 10:57 am

The contents of all vaccines are published openly and in great detail. The exact proportions of the different ingredients and how they are formulated are not openly published, because they represent the IP of the company, but are reported to each regulator where some sort of licence is sought, e.g. CDC/FDA, MHRA, EMA etc. The EMA is made up of representatives from the regulatory bodies in each EU member state so each of those regulators also knows the detailed formulation. Every batch is tested and the results reported to the relevant regulator.

As an example this article details the full contents of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine in Paragraph 1. The article also gives masses of information on the observed side effects. In the introductory paragraph it references a pdf fact sheet that is issued to every centre administering the vaccine so they are alerted to them. The submission for regulatory approval also gave details on the relative occurrence in the trials of each of these side effects. There is a yellow card system through which any medical practitioner or any individual can report side effects that they observed/experienced so that area is constantly evolving. It is completely normal for rare side effects, which didn't appear in the trials, to be reported when the vaccine is rolled out to the whole population. Similar information is widely available for all vaccines that have gained some sort of approval.

The advice on who should receive the vaccine is based completely on balance of risk. Mild and moderate side effects are largely ignored, although it is important that people receiving the vaccine are informed about them so they know what might happen to them. Serious side effects are evaluated further and can result in changes to the administering advice. As an example this article describes the EMA review of the blood clotting issue possibly associated with the AstraZeneca vaccine.

Assessing the risk/benefit balance is complex. The risk of developing these rare blood clots is extremely low in all age groups and the risk of dying from them lower still. The risk does seem to be slightly higher in younger people compared to older people. That on its own would not rule out giving the vaccine to younger people but younger people are much less likely to suffer serious illness and death if they catch COVID so the risk/benefit ratio is less favourable. On the other hand young people spread the virus more rapidly and it does eventually spread into older age groups where it is more likely to cause serious illness and death. It is these sorts of complex interactions mixed with political considerations that can result in different governments reaching different decisions.

Some hard facts, with a little bit of assumption. So far there have been a little over 163 million recorded cases of COVID world wide. We know that about 30 % of people who catch COVID have no symptoms and another 30 % have mild or moderate symptoms. Let's assume that none of them get tested so the recorded cases only represent 40 % of people who have caught it. That implies that a little over 400 million people have actually had COVID. Worldwide there have been 3.385 million deaths from COVID so that represents a Case Fatality Rate of about 0.8%. Lockdown measures do not stop the spread of COVID, they simply slow it down so that healthcare systems can cope so, in the absence of a vaccination programme, eventually the whole population of the world would catch it, i.e. 7.7 billion people. With a CFR of 0.8 % that would result in 60 million deaths.

Warwick

Kamisiana
Posts: 498
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:06 pm

Re: Welcome to Greece - Enjoy your Hotel

Postby Kamisiana » Sun May 16, 2021 1:09 pm


Kilkis
Posts: 12832
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Welcome to Greece - Enjoy your Hotel

Postby Kilkis » Sun May 16, 2021 2:22 pm

I know you like your "facts", Yorgo, so here is a little factlet for you to contemplate. There is currently an upsurge in cases in Bolton, Lancs, largely due to an Indian variant with a higher transmission rate starting to dominate. With the upsurge in cases has come an upsurge in hospitalisations. Absolutely overwhelmingly the people being admitted to hospital with serious conditions are people who were eligible for vaccination, who were offered the vaccine and who refused to take the vaccine. I don't know how many of them will die but certainly a lot more than would have done if they had taken the vaccine. For some their decision not to accept the vaccine will be commemorated by a headstone. That is what happens in the real world.

Warwick

Kilkis
Posts: 12832
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Welcome to Greece - Enjoy your Hotel

Postby Kilkis » Mon May 17, 2021 8:25 am

Some more real "facts", this time in Greece, Yorgo.

Warwick

johnr
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:29 pm

Re: Welcome to Greece - Enjoy your Hotel

Postby johnr » Tue May 18, 2021 8:06 am

Snippet from Radio 4 Today programme this morning.

The majority of COVID patients hospitalised recently in the Bolton area, had not been vaccinated, although eligible!

JR


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